Mythic v. Blacksnow :: World of Warcraft :: ZAM

Mythic v. BlacksnowJun 12th, 2002 at 10:34 AM by Illia

Unknown Player has an article up discussing the outcome of the Mythic v Blacksnow case. (Where Blacksnow argued that ingame property was indeed their own to do with as they please) From the article: Sometimes the strangest and most obscure lawsuits can set precedents that have profound effects on the rest of the country. Such a situation occurred recently in a California District Court case between BlackSnow Interactive and Mythic Entertainment. Click here for the full article.

Tags: General, News

Comments

A.Limey

# Jun 25 2002 at 7:44 PM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

Stupid ***/Mick/Limey??
You narrow minded, disloyal, egocentric childish fool.
I stood shoulder to shoulder with Americans when the **** hit the fan and fit into the catchment area of the above insults.
Maybe you should spend some time serving your country and you will find out as most Americans already know that there are people outside the US who deserve a little courtesy even if respect is too much for you as an individual.
I quote"Show some respect or deal with it"-

RE: A.Limey

# Oct 15 2002 at 8:18 AM Rating: Default

__DEL__1591768772082

42 posts

you need to read his whole post. what he was saying is that you dont see us saying things like that. What you didnt see was the post he was responding to. There was a post ripping on Americans further down the list, but it seems to have been erased or something.

I think most Americans stand by other countries alot more than those countries stand by Americans. How often do you hear of a Canadian getting attacked. Or a French soldier being kidnapped. The world targets America. I dont understand why. Sure we have our fingers in the pots of places we should, but what government doesnt.

Anyway...dont rip on America...if it werent for us, you would be calling your neighbor "comerade" and hiding your only posession from the KGB.

I agree but...

# Jun 14 2002 at 11:33 AM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591750771690

3 posts

The jist of the last post was this;
(I was trying not to be long winded but I guess I have to be now.)

If you buy a piece of Software, or rather if you exchange currency for a product that product is for all intent and purpose yours, That specific piece anyway, you do not claim ownership of the company or any copyrights, but the individual physical program running on the computer that YOU have purchased. Say you buy a Greeting Card software, whats to say that in the future said Greeting Card software developer decides to charge you a per piece printed rate based on the fact that everytime you design a card a message is sent back to the company saying so-n-so at 123.222.123.12 has just developed a birthday card, you get an e-mail, which you had to give them to register the software, stating that you owe Iwannaberich Inc X amount of dollars. Now this is a far fetched and extreme idea, but, if we allow these companies to dictate to us how we use our time and energy and OUR own resources IE our computers(which we paid for) Network Connection (which again WE paid for) after we just dropped 60 bills or so for a piece of entertainment. We are sending out a resounding "spank us please for we are sheepeople and can not do with out you O'Mighty software Guru."
Really isnt sounding very entertaining now is it. Which is why most people do NOT read EULA's because they want to have FUN, they want to enter their Noraths,Camelots, or where ever.

Generally speaking most people could give a flying rats *** about Yutzbucket Jack selling gold on the web. Yes it is frustrating to see these people gain levels and profit from cheating, but come on its a game for Pete Sake. There's always going to be some schmuck that thinks he can cheat his way through life.

Flame Away Im wearing my aspestos boxers.

Edited, Fri Jun 14 12:39:23 2002

RE: I agree but...

# Jun 15 2002 at 1:05 AM Rating: Good

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Anonymous

The suit wasn't about knowing or copying certain data or even owning an exclusive copy of certain data, but rather about insisting that the certain data exist in a very specific place on Mythic-owned server. Since attempting to control someone else's server in that manner is somewhat ludicrous, the complaint was disguished in the form of data ownership. But if that were the case, Mythic could send a copy of the savegame file for the plaintiff to him. They would then remove that savegame from the server thus washing its hands of the matter.

The result is that the plaintiff has a copy of his character's data (i.e. the information that is the basis of the lawsuit), but the character's data no longer exists on the Mythic server and thus no longer exists in the Mythic game world. The plaintiff would have all the bits that made up his or her character, but it'd be utterly worthless as said bits would no longer affect anything.

All this is *very* different from sanctioning EULAs in general. In most situations, you're not connecting to or storing data on the vendor's server. I could not imagine Microsoft laying a successful legal claim to all the Word documents ever generated by Microsoft Office.

Likewise, I can't see this decision being extended to cover every EULA term ever devised. It seems like a very circumscribed case dealing with a very specific issue: who owns the data on Mythic's servers? I suspect even if Mythic's EULA never mentioned ownership of virtual property, the court would still have ruled in Mythic's favor.

EULA

# Jun 14 2002 at 11:31 AM Rating: Decent

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Scholar

480 posts

Here is the problem that I have...

You can not read the EULA until you install the software.

Once you open the software, you can not return it to the store for a refund.

As it is right now, you are S.O.L. if you don't agree to the EULA and want to return the software.

RE: EULA

# Jun 17 2002 at 3:54 AM Rating: Decent

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54 posts

Make Sure you buy it from a place that has a 10 day returns Policy like Game & Electronics Boutique in the UK. As long as you return the packaging and contents in its original condition with a valid proof of purchase (receipt) you can exchange it or get a refund:)

RE: EULA

# Jun 17 2002 at 10:20 PM Rating: Default

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169 posts

most places in Canada, and i assume the US wont return an opened software package because they assume you have pirated it.

You let them do this

# Jun 22 2002 at 11:07 PM Rating: Decent

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Scholar

1,075 posts

The store SAYS they won't take it back. You allow that.

If you were to stand in front of the customer service desk LOUDLY proclaiming that you disagree to the Eula inside and are bringing back the software, as said Eula instructs and that they HAVE to give you a refund, its very likely that they would (or that you'd be carted off somewhere ;) ) The thing is that most people who have a store tell them that they won't return it just go,

"ok."

The store knows that.

If loudly demanding a refund does not work, your next step is small claims court. Guess what? In all liklihood YOU WILL WIN. First of all, Best Buy or whomever won't even bother to show up and second of all consumer law is basically on your side. You bought a product with a legal appearing statement inside that you don't agree with. Even besides that, if you are unsatisfied you have the right to bring merchandise back... if anything for another product.

I once had a friend who bought a notebook computer from best buy which did not function. He brought it back for them to fix 4 times, still did not function. He took them to small claims, they did not show up, he got an order from the court to give him a refund. The store might recognize copyable software as something which can't be returned but the legal system probably won't. If they let you return a toaster because you don't like something about it, they have to let you return this other item also.

.

# Jun 14 2002 at 9:45 AM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

The virtual world is being hosted by Mythic's servers, right? Claiming ownership of data residing on their own servers is not so far-fetched. If they want to rent out time and virtual 'property' as part of the Terms of Service for connecting to their servers, that's their prerogative. After all, running those servers does cost Mythic resources. If you want to use their servers, you agree to their terms; otherwise, you play offline, on competing servers, or not at all. It sounds like a Terms of Service issue, not a EULA one.

.

# Jun 14 2002 at 9:34 AM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

The virtual world is being hosted by Mythic's servers, right? Claiming ownership of data residing on their own servers is not so far-fetched. If they want to rent out time and virtual 'property' as part of the Terms of Service for connecting to their servers, that's their prerogative. After all, running those servers does cost Mythic resources. If you want to use their servers, you agree to their terms; otherwise, you play offline, on competing servers, or not at all. It sounds like a Terms of Service issue, not a EULA one.

.

# Jun 14 2002 at 9:33 AM Rating: Default

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Anonymous

The virtual world is being hosted by Mythic's servers, right? Claiming ownership of data residing on their own servers is not so far-fetched. If they want to rent out time and virtual 'property' as part of the Terms of Service for connecting to their servers, that's their prerogative. After all, running those servers does cost Mythic resources. If you want to use their servers, you agree to their terms; otherwise, you play offline, on competing servers, or not at all. It sounds like a Terms of Service issue, not a EULA one.

ahhh the ignorance

# Jun 14 2002 at 9:01 AM Rating: Default

__DEL__1591750771690

3 posts

Quote;
*The big news is that some american was actually held responsible for his actions.

Anyone who doesnt know what the "I accept" button means deserves what they get or thinks rules just dont apply to them (insert random american jab here)*

Statements like this truely make me laugh.

First off its "American" capital "A" show some respect, we did to your country at some point in history.

Secondly you make a statement that holds no justification, where did you get your information? What American has DIRECTLY effected you that you are this bitter? When in fact we as Americans open our arms to anyone that wishes to find freedom. It should be the Americans that hold the anger toward those with new citizenship for they receive a tax break that allows them to live tax free for several years. Some are even allowed to take out loans interest free to start a business. I will not hold your ingnorance against you, but I need to make you aware of the scale of this entire suit as well as all of the past, present, and future suits against Large corporations.
This as well as any other suit against EULA's should be taken seriously. I am not sure you are aware of the fact that even though you spend your hard earned cash (or your mommies or daddies)that piece of software does not belong to you but more or less is being leased, or rented. Read that entire case from beginning to end, there is a lot of truth behind the fears of "Big Brother" there are currently over 10,000 sniffers working 24/7/365 on the WWW, not just American, but foreign as well your/our every move can be traced. Case in point is the sweep currently being run here in the states against Child ****, (Go get em FBI) they truely do know who is doing what when, its just a matter of man/woman power as to when they act upon illegal actions, there is also the matters of legality, and solid evidence, they cant not just waltz in a "nab" someone for spamming microsoft with "love letters".
Anyway I have a few points here; do not make statements that you can not back with solid facts or justification.
Do not grief on Americans, in an American forum none-the-less, unless you wish to have yourself picked apart by the vultures. I mean come on you dont see posts like its about time some stupid *** or Mick or Limey did such-n-such.
Show some respect or deal with the flaming.

Big Brother IS watching surf with caution!

Edited, Fri Jun 14 09:54:14 2002

#REDACTED, Posted: Jun 17 2002 at 10:04 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Response #3

RE: ahhh the ignorance

# Jun 24 2002 at 3:33 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1592254930732

7 posts

Jeez Suraki. GET OVER IT! I cant believe the childishness of some of the posts on these boards but you take the cake. Threatening to take GM action against another player because you dont like their post... how sad how petty. Is this a Canadian thing? you seem to have a lot of bitterness. Get help.

#REDACTED, Posted: Jun 17 2002 at 9:57 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Response #2

#REDACTED, Posted: Jun 17 2002 at 9:45 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Look at your own ignorance ...

#REDACTED, Posted: Jun 13 2002 at 8:53 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) There is nothing earth shattering at all here.

funny

# Jun 13 2002 at 3:53 PM Rating: Decent

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Anonymous

I thought the whole thing was funny. And for you people who worry bout conspiracy, think about the whole big brother aspect we could bring in here.
If you stupid enough not to read it, then be smart enough to accept it.

Arbitration

# Jun 13 2002 at 4:47 AM Rating: Excellent

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8 posts

First of all, let's be clear about something here. All that was upheld in this was that the court decided that the Arbitration Clause in the EULA should be deemed reasonable, and this case was sent to arbitration. That is not earth-shattering... and no precedents that will rock the online world are likely to be set in this case, precisely because it IS being sent to arbitration. Common law (precedents) are written by courts not arbiters. Let's not panic here folks... this seems to be a nearly non-issue!

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