Ghostcrawler Outlines Ret Pally Changes

Allakhazam poster Ehcks has brought to our attention a post by Ghostcrawler, also known as lead games system designer Greg Street, on the O-Boards regarding the changes to Retribution Paladins.

In our tests, Retribution dps remains the same over longer periods of time, but they can't do quite so much damage in the initial few seconds of a PvP encounter. I know Ret pallies feel a little picked on since we've made this mistake before of having them come out the gate too strong and then had to correct them. For that I do apologize. It's a difficult spec to balance since part of its design is to have large crits and stuns, which have obvious PvP implications. We are pretty confident this will not nerf pallies into the ground as I facetiously promised yesterday, but if we overdid it, we'll be happy to back off some of the changes.

The full post can be found here or below. It outlines the changes to Divine Storm, Repentance, Art of War, Righteous Vengeance, Glyph of Crusader Strike, and Seal and Judgement of Light. Discuss it in our forums here.

"As I stated yesterday, we are happy with Ret's PvE damage and sustatined damage in PvP, but were concerned that the burst damage in PvP could be too high. We discussed this for literally hours yesterday, which was certainly not the first time we have discussed the issue. Thus I hope these changes are not perceived as a knee-jerk reaction, but I am sure that will depend a great deal on which class you play. :)

Divine Storm -- the damage was changed from Holy to Physical. As you know, Holy damage is almost never mitigated and this talent could pack a lot into a very short time. This is a nerf to the ability's damage. This change is now active on Live.

Repentance -- this ability now lasts for only 6 seconds in PvP (down from 10). Obviously this is also a nerf. This change is also active on Live.

Art of War -- now affects all damage done by Judgements, Crusader Strike and Divine Storm (instead of critical strike damage). Net dps should be about the same but less bursty. This change will be made before Nov 13.

Righteous Vengeance -- now applies a dot affect similar to Deep Wounds (instead of critical strike damage). This ends up being a significant buff to the ability to make up for the damage lost to Divine Storm, but is also less bursty. This change will be made before Nov 13. EDIT: The dot will NOT break Repentance.

Glyph of Crusader Strike -- now reduces mana cost (instead of increased damage on stunned targets.) We thought paladins could stack too much damage vs. stunned targets. This change will be made before Nov 13.

We also fixed a bug with Seal and Judgement of Light that could sometimes result in too much healing.

In our tests, Retribution dps remains the same over longer periods of time, but they can't do quite so much damage in the initial few seconds of a PvP encounter.

I know Ret pallies feel a little picked on since we've made this mistake before of having them come out the gate too strong and then had to correct them. For that I do apologize. It's a difficult spec to balance since part of its design is to have large crits and stuns, which have obvious PvP implications. We are pretty confident this will not nerf pallies into the ground as I facetiously promised yesterday, but if we overdid it, we'll be happy to back off some of the changes.

On the other hand, maybe we'll see fewer BGs with 20 paladins on the opposing side and can get some reasonable feedback on all the other classes in the game.

EDIT: To clairfy the new dot will not break Repentance."

Comments

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cos of rogues :)
# Oct 17 2008 at 2:16 AM Rating: Decent
I blame rogues !
They made they where the ones yelling that pallys are Op now, just so they can slip passed unnoticed.
So lets not talk about Night elf rogues and Shadowmeld ?
BG Crybabies
# Oct 17 2008 at 12:56 AM Rating: Decent
Wow...I respec'd from prot to ret specifically for the increased dps. Sure, in PvP the talents may have been a little OP, but no more than what was given to any other class. In PvE, ret paladins were finally able to do some respectable dps. This nerfing is going to put ret paladins back on the very bottom of the list for desirable dps players in terms of instances and raids. Blizzard fixed the ret tree and then promptly broke it at the behest of PvP crybabies who weren't prepared (and probably completely under estimated) the new DPS ability of the retribution talent tree.

If blizzard can have certain enchantments that have a reduced effect after a certain level, they can make the abilities have a slightly reduced proc rate on stuns and crits in a pvp environment and leave them as-is for PvE.
i can tell you one thing
# Oct 16 2008 at 11:40 PM Rating: Default
hi i can tell you one thing i know about rogues they got nef bad our kick does noting now and some of our other little tricks got nerf
i can tell you one thing
# Oct 17 2008 at 2:15 AM Rating: Decent
lol you think rogues got nerfed? You really need to learn how to play your class then. Or learn to spec properly. Rogues got huge buffs in this patch.
i can tell you one thing
# Oct 17 2008 at 10:23 AM Rating: Decent
i got 2 level 70 rogues i think i know by now how to play my class thank you
i can tell you one thing
# Oct 17 2008 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
Then consider re-evaluating your play style - rogues got buffed...big time.
Repentance
# Oct 16 2008 at 2:41 PM Rating: Decent
****
4,717 posts
The only nerf that I can't stand is repentence, no **** you Blizzard, give me back repentance.
and so it starts
# Oct 16 2008 at 10:58 AM Rating: Default
...now we (rets) will be nerfed back down into "loldps"-mode; and once again we will ONLY be allowed to group if we spec prot or holy.

because no one every thinks ahead; it's always "wah! i got killed; nerf <class> now!" and then when 80 hits it's "loldps". remember all the classes who's dps trees were nerfed before TBC came out just because the tbc-talents made them OP at 60. and then when 70 hit they could do **** for dmg; the same ppl who cried nerf then cried buff (rightfully so, since the classes were underpowered then)
h
# Oct 16 2008 at 10:26 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
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4,445 posts
IF anything they seem to be doing more DPS. Ran Kara last night and according to the DPS add-ons peopel were linking the two highest DPS in the raid was the Paladins Followed by the Mages followed by the Hunters and on down. We didn't have any warlock or rogues to compare though as none showed up.

Kinda makes me mad when I think about it. A plate class should never out DPS a cloth class (well minus a healer maybe) unless they are geared alot better. I know both of the paladins doing this DPS have a mixture of greens, S2, rep epics, and of course Kara gear. In PVP they are apparently OP also. Hard for a cloth class to do any damage when we are stunned and dead before we can cast our long *** cast time spells?

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____________________________
Hi
h
# Oct 16 2008 at 1:07 PM Rating: Decent
Sorry Fronglo, I meant to respond to Dyner, the poster above you,



I don't understand. If the INTENT is to make a class 'balanced at 80' with the other classes...then why don't they make talents that SCALE as the class levels, becoming inherently more powerful? Wouldn't that solve this problem....the one that they have had twice now according to Dyner?
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Edited, Oct 16th 2008 5:05pm by PrometheusUnbound
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