* When calculating damage for players equipped with 2-handed weapons, the damage rating's upper limit isn't being corrected properly.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm mostly a mage player, I play BLM and SMN for DD and RDM as a support/healer. This update seems to be a GOOD idea, I have noticed one thing about a few jobs that have changed that need addressing. (These numbers may be applied only to these specific characters cause of the gear and style of play which I didn't take extensive notes but made observations of several 75WAR/MNK and 75WAR/NIN on IT (exp/merit) mobs.)

Greataxe
Before update
- Average Non-Critical attack: 110
- Average Critical attack: 290
- Steel Cyclone: 950
- Raging Rush: 1100
After update
- Average Non-Critical attack: 220
- Average Critical attack: 350
- Steel Cyclone: 1200
- Raging Rush: 1800

I'm not sure if this is on all the weapons modified, but this seems to be a bit excessive as an "improvement" especially when most WAR tend to ws every 40~60 seconds. (about the same rate at which a SMN uses attack BPs)
Now, for all those who are about to rush down to the bottom of the page and flame me....

Lets think about this logically, every 40~60 seconds you are using a ws that does near 2k at most times, a PLD or NIN cant really compete with the hate you are building after 2 ws. I have noticed that players though stronger offensively have begun dropping off like flies (LOL), which hilarious at times, can be very tiresome for mages to spam cures. Personally I find this update quite annoying, since players who are obviously geared for DD have now become tanks due to excessive hate gain.

Now some others might say "thats nothing those players are noobs they should /THF and SATA those PLD or NIN who cant keep hate" well that doesn't really solve the problem with balance which has now occurred. You see, BLM for one, can do all of 1300~1400 damage in an AMII spell, but can only safely use that kind of spell 1 maybe 2 times per fight without becoming either tank for the party or dying, and they have no instant hate solution such as Trick Attack to save them at that point, so why is it that Melee DD players are given such "special treatment" when it comes to hate? </rant> Anyways...lets move on.

Now lets talk about SMN BPs. Since I am only allowed to play SMN in exp/merit parties and not really welcome anywhere else as that job cause my overall DD is quite weak compared to my BLM, and my healing ability is sub-par compared to my RDM, I can only really compare my damage values from exp/merit in this case. But I have taken my SMN to places like Dynamis, Limbus, Sky and Sea at my own request of LS to show my skills, which results in quite a disappointing display. I am currently level 75, but when these tests were done I was level 73, but since my summoning magic hasnt raised in level since then, I'm quite sure that it shouldnt place a drastic change, so lets assume these numbers are for a level 73 SMN not level 75. My summoning magic level is currenly 259 (+27 from gear) for a total of 286.

Lets review level 70 BloodPacts:

In EXP/Merit (Mamool - Mage, BST and DRG mobs, using NIN or THF would be unfair assesment, since 90%+ of uses were resulting in "Miss!")
Mountain Buster
Average Result: Miss! (w00t)
Highest Result: 1120
Lowest Result: Miss! or.. 125
Chaos Strike(None of these had any stun effect ~_~)
Average Result: 590
Highest Result: 970
Lowest Result: 120
Predator Claws
Average Result: 650
Highest Result: 1150
Lowest Result: 320
Rush
Average Result: 590
Highest Result: 1090
Lowest Result: Miss! or.. 190
Flame Crush
Average Result: Miss! (oh yeah~!)
Highest Result: 570
Lowest Result: Miss! or.. 110
Spinning Dive
Average Result: Miss! (go me! ; ;)
Highest Result: 1120
Lowest Result: Miss! or.. 350

On Dynamis/Limbus/Sky mobs
Mountain Buster
Average Result: 950
Highest Result: 1010
Lowest Result: Miss! or.. 500
Chaos Strike(Again yay, no Stun, hmm isn't this BP supposed to stun??)
Average Result: 750
Highest Result: 1350
Lowest Result: 105
Predator Claws
Average Result: 550
Highest Result: 920
Lowest Result: Miss! or.. 115 (always 115 when mostly misses iuno why)
Rush
Average Result: 590
Highest Result: 1150
Lowest Result: Miss! or.. 250
Flame Crush
Average Result: Miss! (no change here, is this a BP or "MP waster"?)
Highest Result: 920
Lowest Result: Miss! or.. 220
Spinning Dive
Average Result: Miss! (More misses, hmm this is why Ifrit and Leviathan are at 9&0 on my summon list for macro)
Highest Result: 1230
Lowest Result: Miss! or.. 100

Lets take a look back at everyone's favorite little Blue Rabbit/3-tail Fox. His level 55 ability Meteorite seems to never get any better, with the level 70 BloodPacts I have noticed a boost in power and accuracy (except for those Avatars *cough*Titan, Ifrit, Leviathan*cough* who seem to miss more than hit..) as I level, but Carbuncle's only "good" BloodPact besides his 2-hour (which also disappoint me personally, but I'll talk about that later) hasnt changed in damage or accuracy since I was level 55.

Average Damage: 320
Highest Damage: 520
Lowest Damage: 32 (oh come on, even I can hit for 38 on an IT mob and not use up MP >.>)

Now lets talk about Avatars in general, their overall DD power (melee attacks now not BPs) seem to be quite weak, if i set any of my Avatars (from weak and small Carbuncle to big rough and tough Titan) they tend to miss a lot, and I mean A LOT, even with AFv1 pants and AFv2 hands they miss on average on mobs which /check to me as having low evasion 50~60%, if this were the accuracy of a melee DD player you would be doing /check, complaining about their choice of food (yea food, hmm can avatars have food of some kind please?!? anyways back to where i was..) or you'd be looking for someone new. Their melee hits aren't anything which really asks for them to be out for longer than it takes to use their BPs. They tend to hit between 15 and 40 with Crits of 35 to 60. Most 1-handed weapons worn by melee (or even NIN and PLD with no DD gears) ranges between 50 and 150 with Crits of 100 to 120. Now if you compare all these numbers for melee DD with 1-hand weapons, melee DD with 2-hand weapons and Avatars, you will see a trend..

Avatar Melee damage (LOL): Approx. 0.5x 1-Hand Weapon DD (even the DD of the SMN themself, and I can eat food to make my DD better, they cant)
1-Hand Weapon users: 1x (lets just call this 1x cause it seems like decent damage considering they dont use mp/tick to attack)
2-Hand Weapon users before update: 1.5x
2-Hand Weapon users after update: 2x~2.5x

I'm not sure if I'm getting through to people on why 2-hand weapons are a bit too overpowered atm cause they have to fix what they made "too powerful" since the update. So here are some suggestions SE can do to fix the damage balance.

Avatars:
Food. Plain and simple, whatever food the master eats, those stats are applied to the Avatar as well, or maybe a "weapon" to fit into the ranged slot or ammo slot that either doesn't stack and has a timer which lasts 30mins and has a certain amount of charges before it runs out or stacks like normal food and is consumable and lasts same duration as player food.
1-Handed weapons
Adjust the calculation of damage so that they do maybe a bit more damage, and give some kind of consideration to the ws damage over normal attacks. (I.E make ws better for all jobs using, make any job using that weaponskill with the same stats do the same damage. (I have seen WAR and PLD with the same gear and eaing same food, and doing same ja do very different damage both for overall attacks and ws damage)
2-Handed weapons
Tone down the normal attacks a bit, yea I know you are changing them soon cause you made a mistake in calculation, but change average normal attacks to maybe a touch stronger than they were before, but keep those ws high, yes, I am not happy with the hate thing... but my BF is a DRG and his Penta Trust doing 1400 (on mobs not weak vs piercing) over 750 has made him very happy since WAR, and DRK could always break 1k even on mobs not weak vs those damage types (which is slashing I believe, I could be wrong) and without using SATA. These adjustments arent really a "nerf" per-say since you are now doing 2.5x more damage than any other player in the game, your weapon uses 2 hands, not 3, it should be doing 2x damage only.


Honestly, I'm glad that people /NIN for Dual wield don't have the advantage in exp, but think logically that the improvement for non-ws should not have changed much if any, your average of 100~150 before the update is pretty nice, most jobs cant do that on a single hit without using tricks like Double Attack or Triple Attack or Kick Attacks. Don't feel robbed of high DD, cause you are getting very powerful ws.

Anyways, this post is mostly for SE to consider (if they even read this at all..)
If you want to rant about my post, or pick it apart, go ahead, chances I read this thread again after posting is very low, I might check it again in like 3 months LOL

Keep this in mind, SE isnt trying to knock you down, they are gently guiding you to the floor :D

Oops, I forgot to mention..
SMN 2-hour hardly seems worth using all your MP for, the damage values are on average of 1k damage, I can (if im lucky) do 5~6x that damage using all my mp. Please Boost the damage if you are gonna keep ws damage higher than 1k, my suggestion.. 2k *gasp* per BP used during 2h. Or at least 1.5k at times, but lets shoot for the 2k mark please ^^

Edited, Sep 1st 2007 6:02pm by Rosalae

The crying has been non stop! So other jobs can do decent damage now...boohoo. I con't count the number of times I have been trying to form parties when party members ***** they don't want this job or that job becuase they don't do decent damage. What about we mages?? When was the last time WHM, BLM, or RDM got anything in a update. Where are the updates promised to make WHM more useful in parties when it comes to damage and enfeebling?? When was the last time WE got anything....?? Good Question. Quit crying, put on your big boy/girl panties and deal with it!!

Does anyone else have a problem with nomad moogles in Tavnazian Safehold?

All i have are: Mog Safe, Delivery Box and Change Jobs. What sucks is that Mog Safe is Mog Safe, Delivery Box is Mog Locker and Change Jobs is Delivery Box.

I can't change jobs. ;.; Neone know how to report issues like this?

Ugh I hope they dont re-nerf 2h weapons, SE got it right imo.

<Hmmm.> I hope they don't re-gimp 2handers just because people were complaining. Base damage of 2handers should be more than 1handers.

It seems they may be changing just because of people complained. Its not like square didn't test the damage heavily. They didn't just throw the change in and cross their fingers.

It could have been worse but at less it's not a major problem this time out. Although I would have liked to have seen some Grips at lvl 15 that would give you a bonus to int and mnd for some of the weapons skills do use them and some people sub whm rdm and pld when they solo war and drk. Level 30 is a long wait for somthing that could help at lower lvls. and as for the damage well it's a little beter since the up date. I tried useing a Bastokian Scythe and I noticed that it did do more damage then befor. Let us hope they make more grips for 2-Handed weapons soon.