New Changes on the Horizon

I received two letters today from SOE regarding the new changes being implemented in the game. The first was the one Quemn posted yesterday, so here's the second. It's definitely something you should read through, as there are some significant changes listed here. Letter #2: Fri Mar 15 2002, Changes/Anniversary Detail As promised, we would like to explain in more detail some of the changes that you'll be seeing in EverQuest. Some of these changes are already available on the Test Server and will be arriving on Live servers just in time for EverQuest's third anniversary. Others you may expect to find on Test in the coming weeks, which we hope to make available to everyone soon afterward. For those new to EverQuest, as well as our mid-level players:
  • The need to sit down and stare at the spellbook to regain mana has been removed at all levels. (Sitting down and having Meditation skill are still required.)
  • When starting a new character for the first time, it can take quite some time to get into that class' core abilities. In some cases, the style of gameplay needs to shift dramatically. That being the case, we've accelerated the rate at which people gain experience up to level ten.
  • In addition, undue frustration can occur during these youthful times. Traumatic events such as losing a corpse and not knowing where to find it or how to retrieve it can be quite the ordeal. With that in mind, we've changed the way that death works below level ten. Characters level nine and under who die will appear at their bind point with all of their equipment intact. (A short-lived corpse will still be left at the site of the disaster to allow the player to receive a resurrection.)
  • Experience gained in dungeons designed for players level 30 and under will be increased. For many people, there is nothing more satisfying in EverQuest than adventuring in dungeons. By giving people the tools to help them succeed earlier, and rewards to match, we hope that more players will discover why many people feel this way.
  • In the spirit of getting characters into more dangerous and rewarding situations, earlier, the following spell lines have been altered to make them easier to use and more widely available, across more level ranges.
  • * Resurrection, for Clerics and Paladins. * Summon Corpse, for Necromancers and Shadowknights. * Succor/Evacuate, for Druids and Wizards
  • The bind points of starting characters will more closely match the areas they are already familiar with. (No more getting lost as new characters die in town, only to show up someplace outside.)
  • New characters now start with considerably more food and drink.
  • After applying advanced mathematcs, the commonly known "hell-level" xperience gain effect in levels 30, 35, 40, and 45 has been largely done away with. Further, the "post-hell-level" experience loss in levels 31, 36, 41, and 46 was driven from the face of Norrath as well.
  • For all EverQuest players:
  • Rumors abound that Bristlebane, God of Mischief, for reasons of his own design, has infused the Gnome and Halfling races with new potential professions. (Whether this is a blessing or a curse has yet to be decided.)
  • The long-requested global chat channels are well on their way. We'll be supporting player-created chat channels for raids, for friends, for total strangers - Anything you'd like to use them for. Expect a documentation update (eqmanual_supplement.doc in your EverQuest directory) explaining how to use these soon.
  • We've cleaned up what happens while you're zoning. The days of a frozen screen full of blurry text may well be over, forever. (The days of losing /tells, /guild chat, and group messages while zoning will hopefully be heading out the door behind them.)
  • While we have aimed to support armor/skin layer tinting on the majority of video cards, some of the abandoned video cards that are still used to play EverQuest unfortunately do not have the power to handle this feature. With that in mind, we will soon be implementing a switch that will allow players to enable armor/skin tinting at their discretion. (Stay tuned to a patch message, coming soon.)
  • The last item we'd like to mention is a brief update on caster and priest rebalancing. (Please note that the balancing act is still going on, across the board. We wanted to update you on the progress we've made so far.)
  • Expect to see the first of the Focus Items for spell casters and spell-casting hybrids soon. We will leave the specifics to you to discover, but rest assured that useful and exciting focus items are making their way into the game as we speak.
  • Enchanters' Memory Blur line, and aspects of Rapture and Glamour of Kintaz have been improved.
  • The grouping requirement for the Translocate series of spells has been removed.
  • Clerics' Smite line has been improved.
  • The Post-50 Lich line for Necromancers has been redistributed.
  • Necromancers' Levant and Skin of the Shadow have been changed to allow them to be used any time of the day.
  • Necromancers' Quivering Veil of Xarn has been improved.
  • Many of the caster balance changes to date have been made with feedback from the dedicated players of these classes, both from EMails and message boards. We're grateful for the time and effort that has been put into many well-reasoned comments we've received. Thank you for helping us make our world, yours. - The EverQuest Team

    Comments

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    New changes
    # Mar 17 2002 at 6:16 AM Rating: Default
    Quite frankly I think these changes are to compete with a little bomb that blizzard's planning to drop this summer. I don't care, I like EQ too much and will play them both.

    Can't we all just get along?
    Hell and tarnation
    # Mar 17 2002 at 6:07 AM Rating: Excellent
    Just a thought on the Hell Level issue. I read a post from Scott Hartsman:

    The goal was to smooth the path from 30 to 50, not to make it require less overall gameplay, or happen faster. The intent wasn't to get people from 30 to 50 any faster.

    Let's say we add up all the xp, including hell levels, from 30 to 50 and we come up with X. It may be that it still takes X to get through those same levels, just that each level requires more xp than before. This may be how VI will "smooth the path" from 30 to 50. Sure, this would seem to indicate that certain adjustments would be made, but that's been denied.
    Personally Hell Levels don't impact me much. Zipped through some without noticing, got a bit of advice about that some time ago, "Just don't look at your xp bar, enjoy the game instead." I take side trips to explore and work on skills based on my mood, sometimes I want to hunt and other times I really need to Brew (Bake, Fish, Smith, spend hours and hours collecting tailoring components from mobs so green they make Gomer Pyle look like Rambo...)
    That's me, though. I'm in no panic to get to level 60. Why scarf down something which is so much more enjoyable when savoured? Besides, I'm looking forward to the change, it'll give me a chance to break out the Old Codger Voice and play it up a bit.
    "You noobs these days don't know how easy ya' got it. Why, when I was level 45 we didn't get xp! Jus' had ta' wait around for months and months, killin' an' killin', until Cazic-Thule notice ya' and made ya' 46. Then he'd kill ya', and you'd be 45 again! And it'd go on like that fer years, until ya' fergot what class ya' was, then - Ding! ya'd be a level 36 Ranger of some other god who'd ferget all about ya'."

    Hmm...must be late.
    RE: Hell and tarnation
    # Mar 17 2002 at 9:33 PM Rating: Decent
    And remember, things aren't less stressful in high levels(especially raids!! where one man can make a mistake, and waste an hour of fourty peoples time!!)

    Have fun, but gah dang, know your stuff if you group with me. I had a level 49 cleric group with me without complete freaking heal.. =(
    RE: Hell and tarnation
    # Mar 17 2002 at 12:53 PM Rating: Decent
    Tokaaz Wrote:

    >>got a bit of advice about that some time ago,
    >>"Just don't look at your xp bar, enjoy the game instead."

    EXACTLY!!! It makes me wonder if they shouldnt simply remove it altogether=) This is excellent advice. Kinda like Bowling. Dont bother looking at your score until the game's done. Just roll the ball=)

    The Gomer Pyle thing is classic, I am going to start using it!

    And the last Old Codger Voice - LMAO!!!!

    Whole post? Couldnt agree more with ya! Good On Ya!

    RE: Hell and tarnation
    # Mar 17 2002 at 3:08 PM Rating: Decent
    Absolutely right.
    WTF
    # Mar 17 2002 at 5:06 AM Rating: Default
    Verant seems to think that their supposed new-found popularity surge means that they have to water this game down. There's already enough clueless people running around who were power-leveled by a friend and know next to nothing about how to play their class. These changes amount to setting the difficulty level even lower. The whole point is that the whiny, crybaby beggars who don't want to bother learning the game and would rather have everything handed to them should not bother playing in the first place. Put all these changes onto one server, leave huge piles of coin laying around, make the best items ludicrously easy to obtain, and then charge $40 a month for the new Wimps server.
    RE: WTF
    # Mar 17 2002 at 9:46 PM Rating: Default
    Put all these changes onto one server, leave huge piles of coin laying around, make the best items ludicrously easy to obtain, and then charge $40 a month for the new Wimps server.

    ________________________________

    hehe.. I'll second that Amen! Take the halfling ranger/paladin idea with them too. The fallout from that has yet to be seen I'm sure.
    RE: WTF
    # Mar 17 2002 at 2:23 PM Rating: Decent
    AMEN!
    RE: WTF
    # Mar 17 2002 at 10:10 PM Rating: Default
    Wow, people agreeing with me -- that's a first LOL.
    Great changes from this angle
    # Mar 17 2002 at 4:05 AM Rating: Default
    I like these changes. Keeping it short, as our guilds mature, there will be fewer 50th level "newbies" that will even be on raids to potentially cause problems. I am excited to just have some cool changes available to the next character i level. Jeez haven't most of us dug our way up the hard way with at least ONE character? I am glad I won't have to hunt my corpse for 3 hrs with horrible night vision at level 6 again-one of MANY examples.
    RE: Great changes from this angle
    # Mar 17 2002 at 4:23 AM Rating: Decent
    Bah !
    Marketing
    # Mar 17 2002 at 3:36 AM Rating: Default
    Ok. its time to stop making experience hard to attain. I propose we allow a simple 12 levels of experience from your first kill. Then because you worked so hard, i propose at level 45, if you actually kill an even mob in a group setting, you are propelled to level 60 instantly!!

    OK lets get the newbs to subscribe, hurry, theres still some money out there,............ hey have an idea, legends, lets rape *** em too!
    Legends movement ?
    # Mar 17 2002 at 3:05 AM Rating: Good
    Perhaps I will wait a month or two and see how the game play has been affected by the changes and then move to Legends if thier are hunnerds of lvl 50 + NoObs running around disrupting game play =) Thier seems to be a lot of lvl 50+ toons on my server now ...so much so that tis hard to get pickup groups in the *GOOD* zones now , overcamping and spawn hogging are becoming a problem on the Xev server ..... Velks is frickn' horrible , no one roleplays any longer I am much dissapointed in the overall attitude on my server and wish that Sony/Verant would come out with another server to take up some of the overpopulation but that is doubtful with Legends out ! Perhaps all these changes could be a ploy to get the RPG'er to move to Legends I dun know but alas all I can do is wait and see what happens !
    Gnomes ...
    # Mar 17 2002 at 2:31 AM Rating: Decent
    I like all these new things BUT gnome and halfling paladins? Sorry I just don't see it. Yah they can be cleric and warrior but still...Gnome Paladins?
    RE: Gnomes ...
    # Mar 17 2002 at 3:15 AM Rating: Decent
    All I can say is Gnome Powahh ...LOL Can yee imagine the casting abilities of Gnome SK'S ? Gnome INT as high as it is along with thier dex an agi ? Methinks str wise they will not be as good a hack/slasher as say Ogres or Trolls but casting wise they will be tremendously strong ...with High enuff dex they will certainly be able to cast whilst meleeing ! But then again me Rogue has 170 STR unbuffed with his gear on now and with Shammie buffs reaches the cap of 255 STR easily soooo a Gnome with SK gear on and Shammie buffs could easily be topped at 255 str also ...hmmmmmm Gnome SK's will be Incredibly Powerfull IMHO ! Did I mention that me next TOON will definitely be a Gnome SK =) LOL WOOT !



    Chemkyl Starfyre 54 Gnome Channeler Xev server
    "I will not get yee another Rez Apprentice if yee nuke again before the mob is past 60 % Health ! "
    Chemee Bladesnatcher 51 Gnome Rogue Xev server
    "Would yee GET OUTTA ME WAY Ranger , so what if ur gettn' RIPOSTED to death get around' to the front of the mob !"
    Insufferables Guild - "The floggings will continue until' moral improves ! "

    Edited, Sun Mar 17 04:19:22 2002
    #Anonymous, Posted: Mar 17 2002 at 2:15 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I read all these posts! Yes, it did take a long while! But I, nonetheless did get to finish it! Just wanted to thank everyone for posting stuff here! It really teaches a lot! I still dont have a particular opinion about these changes. Im thinking them over!
    RE: Isfandior
    # Mar 17 2002 at 5:06 PM Rating: Default
    Not unique? Name me another class who can melee almost as well as a warrior, and who can also SoW, buff, debuff, DS, heal, nuke, dot, track, invis, and snare, along with many other abilities. Quit whining- you picked a HYBRID class. Rangers are powerful- they can usually trash an even con warrior. You can't have ALL the best abilities of more than one class, y'know- if you did, it would make the other classes pointless and ***** up the game.

    Teriuk / Terriuk / Tookus
    Warrior / Warrior / Druid
    ____________________________
    Warlord Teriuk Blackarrow
    Morell-Thule (Erollisi Marr)
    RE: Isfandior
    # Mar 17 2002 at 2:25 AM Rating: Default
    Metinks dat da rangers is gettin sumtin mister~ its sayin that the hybrids are getting focus items~ rejoice! new things for all!

    Rennon- 39 nec
    (its a secret)- 13 war
    awesome
    # Mar 17 2002 at 1:47 AM Rating: Default
    This new stuff their putting in is cool. Atleast for me. Im not new to the game but stopped a while ago and am planning to return. Now I wont have to spend that much time getting to level 10. These changes really help vets who are making a new character.
    #Anonymous, Posted: Mar 17 2002 at 1:01 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Am i the only one that think halflings are the cutest things ive ever seen? I cant wait to see little green plate covered men running around! I hear they have good starting stats too. The gnome SKs and Pallys sound kinda strange. I love to imagine all the race/class combinations. My all time favorite would be a halfling monk. I think I would burst out laughing every time I saw one. This post is basically stupid.. thats why im anon. :) I am tireed of reading the arguments about the hell lvls :(
    I suck =(
    # Mar 17 2002 at 1:01 AM Rating: Default
    Geez...I started playing a year ago and had quite a hard time, but after juggling school and rl issues I finally made it to 51 with my bard a month ago. I know there are people out there who would laugh at me for taking this long, but I wouldn't call my career on Everquest successful at all. Believe me, it was full of unavoidable deaths without rezzes and slow-as-hell exp. With the removal of hell levels and post-hell level punishment, all I'm gonna have is my self-satisfaction and no bragging rights. Getting to 51 is going to be run-of-the-mill soon and my accomplishments will relatively become insignificant. Sorry, I just needed to post that cause I'm feeling kinda depressed. Guess I better start workin harder on gettin to 60 before some one starts a Bard today and beats me to it.
    blah blah blah
    # Mar 17 2002 at 12:34 AM Rating: Decent
    every one always has to find something to complain about when ever they make any changes to the game.. Most of the changes are very welcome to me.. My 2 main chars have already gone threw the "hell lvl" but its going to be nice lvling up my other chars now:) Really hell lvls are such a drag. LOL
    Starmea
    46 druid
    twink items
    # Mar 16 2002 at 11:46 PM Rating: Default
    I'd like to see more limits on uber-items to reasonable level limits... no more level one rogue equiping fungi tunics, etc... ESPECIALLY if levelling is going to be so much easier now...
    #Anonymous, Posted: Mar 16 2002 at 9:57 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Sounds like a lot of you are just whineing about that fact things are changing and you aren't getting the benfit of it...
    RE: Uhm....
    # Mar 17 2002 at 4:28 AM Rating: Decent
    Pally's have always had the power to rez ...they get it at 59 !
    RE: Uhm....
    # Mar 17 2002 at 12:35 AM Rating: Decent
    The power of a cleric is ALOT more than a rez....
    And Paladin's are supposed to have cleric abilities, I think it is great that they are getting rez's, will help cut down the prioce on em)
    RE: Uhm....
    # Mar 16 2002 at 11:58 PM Rating: Decent
    Ok what exactly was a whineing about that wouldnt benefit me? only 1 thing the fact that i went through those lvls multiple times with my characters, and if they are to do away with them i should get that exp put back into my pool. Pretty sure anyone who went through even a single hell lvl would like to have that exp given to them since now noone has to go thru them. that sounds reasonable, dont sound like whining to me.

    And thats the whole point of getting outa that hell to get your spells, it gives you time to learn the ones you havnt even used yet and dont even know what they do.

    And sorry i play on a regular server, so lets not compare firiona and pvp servers, they are very different. the majority of the peeps that play this game are on regular servers and that is what i was responding too, sorry i didnt say i was on a regular server b4.
    RE: Uhm....
    # Mar 16 2002 at 11:56 PM Rating: Decent
    Call me crazy, but I could have sworn the "main power" of a Cleric was Healing.. but I guess I'm obviously wrong in that aspect.
    Give me a Break
    # Mar 16 2002 at 7:48 PM Rating: Good
    All they are doing is making it so ppl can get to lvl 50 faster, they try not to say that straight up, even LIE about it...this a quote... " the overall path isnt any easier to get to lvl 50" WTF what a freaking lie!!! check this out now

    ok you return to bind with all your stuff so you dont have to go find your body and there is a body there to resurect for a short time. WHO is going to benefit from this? The true veteran player doesnt really need this and if they are playing an alt, they prolly wont die b4 lvl 10 anyways. This will actually HURT a true new player, dieing and going back to get your body is part of the game all this will do is make new players ignorant about how to do this. Basically all this will do is cut down on time LEARNING HOW TO PLAY THE GAME AS INTENEDED and make ppl get to lvl 10 faster.

    Next they said that exp will be faster to obtain up to lvl 10 , again WHO will this benefit?? The True veteran player who makes an alt most likly will get to lvl 10 in a few hours anyways so this doesnt make a diff to them. This, in my opinion will HURT the lower lvl players. why? because they need time to learn the game, not their class as much, the first 10 lvls is about learing how to play the freaking game. Again, all this will do is make a person lvl faster.

    Next we have MORE exp in dungons aimed for players under lvl 30 ummm WHY? most of them have an exp bonus already! All this will do is help Veterans lvl their alts faster. secondly for all those new players who got POWER LEVELED to lvl 10 by verant ( yes i just said that) this will not really help them, sure it makes dungeons seem like a nice place to go. But the fact of the matter is the loot really sucks in most of the old world lower lvl dungeons anyways( nowadays with yaks being considered crap new players
    are frequently given very decent items by 50-60 ppl for free)and that is why ppl do not go there. That and there is usually only 1 zone to run to and its very easy to get killed in one which makes them unapealing so they will normally stay with the "safe" and more convenient outdoor zone. ( you can sow so normally if you get in trouble you can just run) If a group actually does go into a dungeon and head towards a camp to get sick exp, some high lvl person will be powering a friend's alt because the exp is SICK and there is no danger with a lvl 55 right next to you pulling for you and raping the zone of most the mobs. so they say oh well and leave and head back to the outdoor zone. but according to their thinking and what they said, they WANT ppl to go to these dungons and get killer exp, so , again all this will do ( or what they want it to do) is make new players lvl faster. This is to make ppl Want to go raid? bah my ***, raid for WHAT? that AWSOME obsidain dagger in sola ?? Or that SICK Flowing Black Robe in nejena? give me a break this is an attempt to get new players to lvl 50 faster. this one IMO wont work, but they still are trying to hide it.


    Next we have the removal of the hell lvls 30,35,40 and 45. Just a coinky dinky that they did the EXTRA exp in dungons for lvl 30 and under eh? BS. fast all the way to 30 then hit a wall at lvl 30? naw man lets just take out the hell lvls that will keep them on this speed of light pace to 50. hey, good idea. The hell lvls are an institution in this game, first of all its a matter of doing something special /ooc DING FINALLY OUT OF HELL 40!!! any other lvl you might get a few ppl say congratz but on these few lvls its a big accomplishment, and half the zone will congradulate you. secondly it helps players learn more about the game, slow the exp down a little ,travel to a few zones you have never been b4 because you are sick of being in the same zone for so long in the same lvl. Find new and "real" friends, going fast to 50 you wont be sticking around with the same ppl, but in hell lvls you see the same ppl over and over, become friends and have someone you can count on. Another thing with hell lvls with this same principal is the skills, you get so bored of the exp going so slow that some days you wont feel like exping at all, you mess around in towns Learning them, who sells what, ect. You start fiddling with some tradeskills, LEARING more about the game. You work on things you normally wouldnt like sense heading( yes it has a purpose and its very usefull at times) and how to use loc ( i learned how to use loc in a conversation with a "real" friend i met while in hell 35). This is where the lore of the game is found out by many new players. It helps you max out that 2hs skill you uber SUCK at since youve been duel wielding ever since you got it, or working up your Conjuration as a wizard since the only spell you have to work it is eye of freaking zomm until you get your pets ( thanks verant). you learn alot of commands that you didint know like /assist and how to make hot buttons. many emotes that make the game fun. I could go on and on but ill stop here, i think you people get the point. Overall these hell lvls are very detramental in the matureing of a Character,understanding the game and their class more. As for all the new ppl ( it hard to define a "new" character because some ppl learn and understand faster than others , also some ppl are 14 playing this game and others are 25+ so the 14 year olds will need a little more time to get it all, But lets just say a veteran player is 45+ ) who say " hey, they are taking all the hell lvls out up to 45, wow thats great!" of course they are, all they wanna do is get to lvl 60 , get the best stuff and kill dragons and have fun. Thats pretty much the goal of the game. Duh of course they are gonna say that. But this is what really ticks me off, Most of the Veteran players ( just from what i have seen and heard) do not like this, why? many reasons ,first and formost WE had to go thru them, now your just gonna do away with them?? sencondly WE KNOW how much good those lvls do for a new player in becoming a mature player. The last thing i wanna do is explain to a lvl 50 how to use /loc when they ask ME for a freaking port ( because they lvled so fast they dont know innothule is 4 zones away from NK) Third we wont recieve any of that exp which we EARNED, given to us ( what little it may be when given to a 50+) And when we give all these reasons to verant this is what they say to us 45 + vets who dont like this idea " well you guys asked for it long ago, why do you ask for something and then now say you dont want it?" OMFG, we were NEW then, all we wanted to do was get to 50, get the best items, kill dragons and have fun! Brad and his team KNEW what what these lvls meant to the game, and thats why they didnt take them out. and now that we Understand why they didint take them out ( character development) and dont want them taken out, you try some reverse pshycology BS??
    all this will do is make new charaters get to lvl 50 Faster.

    Next is the spell book, ok i must say that i actually like this idea, but there is always an argument in the other direction so, here goes. i remember when i was lvl 43 ( still looking at my book) when they made the change to sit med at lvl 35 awsome now when im a serious group and a mob is inc i can see it b4 it whacks me for 100dmg. good deal, and they didnt just get rid of it. The reason they gave for making it lvl 35 and not taking it out totally is a matter of acheivment, gave you a reason to wanna get to 35 make ppl say wow your 35 wish i didnt have to look at this damn book, will be wonderfull. not that great of a reason, but it still is one, But, there is another ) it gives you time to organize your spell book to what you like best ( you wont have to tedioulsy do it all at once at lvl 50) you learn your spells mana casting time, what form they are ( evocation, divination ect) and that is something you should learn and this is a good way of doing it. overall i think its a good idea, but with all the other changes, it just adds one more thing ppl will be ignorant about at lvl 50. And less deaths while looking at the book while medding alone and a SG kills you at lvl 22 instantly, Relates to getting to lvl 50 FASTER.

    Next the post hell lvl exp loss in 31 36 41 and 46. i never undertood this when i was lower lvl but i have a good idea why it was put in now, Its there again, basically to be an extra hell lvl , IF you didnt learn enough from the previous hell lvl. i say this because, if you die, normally YOU messed up, not counting the bs dissconects or anything. This massive exp loss shows you that you NEED to make some friends, and some good ones at that. Someone who will leave a camp to help you out. It teaches you to think b4 you do something stupid or very risky because you know there is a HUGE consiquence if you die. Think i can make it in this water without EB? well umm if you wanna act like a noob and go die in the water cause you cant cast EB and have no friends that will hook you up, then by all means go for it, i dont want you in my group and when you die lose all that exp and dont get a rez, maybe you will be taught an important lesson LEARN from it and not act so carelessly next time.
    then it will take you longer to get to my lvl and you will have some common sense about the game and not die on me or get me killed. All this will do is make a player lvl to 50 FASTER.

    As far as the low lvl rezing, ok i can understand that 39 is a bit high for clerics getting their first rez spell ( 50% ) i could see a 25% spell being added at 29 , but come on clerics getting a rez in the teens and pallys getting them at extremly low lvl for their class.
    All this will do is cut down on the time it takes to get back to your body from your bind point. which is a LEARING expierience, learing what zones connent ,how to get there, whats the fastest way, makes ppl take more into consideration "should we fight this Quillmane man?" , "i dont know , but i sure dont wanna have to run all the way back from nek if i die" adding this stuff will just get ppl in more trouble than good and wont teach them anything, learn what you can and cant do, or suffer the consiqence. yeah add 10 new rez type spells ( some with exp at 25) all this will do is make players get lvl 50 FASTER.

    Alot of the other changes are very good ideas, chaving mana off of summon corpse , evacs ect, even the book med thing. What i focused on was the whole EXP change. This is a massive change to the way this game works, and the change is being made without the people who made this game great, it was all there for a reason guys, either you dont care about the player base as much as you say you do, OR this is some type of "big business tactic" to keep ppl playing the game and getting more ppl to buy it cause you can kill dragons in 2 months now.. as a noob who doesnt know that you should TAUNT b4 you break MEZ Gawd. Hey , there IS something going on here, why all this stuff in so short of a time period? This is all just my opinion so flame mah if you want, i dont care) but im pretty sure most of the 45+ croud will agree with most of this.

    Basically what all these changes boils down to is it WILL be MUCH easier to get to lvl 50, dont let them lie to you with "The overall path isnt any easier to get to lvl 50". This will just create alot of of lvl 50+ characters that dont know HALF of what they should, some of it very important. They will get you killed, lose all of your EXP that you EARNED from hell lvls. and waste your TIME which will slow down your exp more. Can you veteran players imagine what Velks ( overcrouded as is) will be like with this overwhelming increase of lvl 50 characters? or even seb and chardok, charasis ( howling stones to you new players =p ) its gonna be scary in a few months everyone.

    I hope im wrong, maybe this wont even make a dent to this everchanging game, but IMO this is too much too fast and some of it should NOT even be implemented. I love everquest, ive been playing since 1999 i just hope this doesnt make me quit. Im willing to see what comes of it tho, im open enough to at least give them a shot, at whatever they are trying to acomplish here. And from what they have said, what they are doing doesnt seem to be the same thing. Thats all i have, i know this was long, and i thank everyone who took the time to read this ( whether or not you agree with me, or even flame me) Have a great day EQ or RL )


    P.S. message to verant: If you really want to get lower lvl peeps to go hang around in dungons, the first thing you should do is STOP THE SHAMAN NPC"S FROM CASTING SOW!!!!!! sheesh.


    Brinks 55 wizard (128 days played)

    Usagii 55 Monk ( 22 played days, wow 106 days diff and same lvl, lookie mom i leared how to play the game right, thanks brad)

    Drilleck 44 rogue (24 played days)

    Ynot 42 warrior ( 32 played days, first alt i made)

    few tiny ones not worth mentioning =P




    Edited, Sat Mar 16 19:57:32 2002
    RE: Give me a Break
    # Mar 17 2002 at 1:03 AM Rating: Default
    Give me a break
    Give me a break
    Break me off a piece of that
    Kit Kat bar!
    RE: Give me a Break
    # Mar 16 2002 at 9:56 PM Rating: Decent
    id like to comment on the idea that people NEED to waste time on "hell levels" and lvl 1-10 because it "teaches" them something they SHOULD know, in order to make YOU safer if you happen to be unlucky enough to group with them.

    all your post danziig was based over and over again on how people NEED to learn skills so that they would be ok for YOU to group with at later lvls. who makes you the expert on what anyone NEEDS to learn to be a good player? id say if it took you to lvl 35 to learn how to use /loc than im sure I dont want to group with YOU at all ever.

    i have found that by FAR the hardest skill to learn in this game is how and when to leave a bad group. no one says that you HAVE to group with a lvl 50 that doesnt know there job, and if you find yourself getting into a situation where its life and death and your unsure of your group m8s than YOUR as big an idiot as they are. if you dont know how skilled someone is then go fight a few greenys to see how you work as a team, and if anyone objects to taking time to get your positions and jobs right then leave the group before you get in over your head.

    i have done this many times in my grouping experiance. in oasis i pick up a group all the time to kill orc's, but when the group was first formed, if i didnt know anyone, and wasnt sure i could solo the mobs we were pulling i ALLWAYS pulled a few greenys to see who did what. and if anyone complaned about not getting exp on greenys i didnt want to group with them in the first place.
    i have had more than my share of idiot wizzys that nuke while i was pulling back to camp and draw agro so fast they die before i can taunt off, and then blame ME cause they died, but it was a good lesson for them , and more importiant it was a good lesson for the OTHER casters in our group about not drawing agro,
    ive had rogues that arnt smart enough to stand in one spot so its easy for me to pull a mob to one location and they just step behind the mob and BS away,
    and there is the idiots that think there pets can solo other stuff while the main group is fighting, only to have the pet die then they draw agro off the mob and end up dead while the rest of us are fighting the "main" pull,
    or you get the clerics that still think there tanks at lvl 20, and use all there mana on DD spells so when we get agroed by 3 or 4 more adds and im low on sta and health we all have to unass the joint like its our job,
    or the "back up" tank that doesnt know how /assist works and decides because there is two tanks and two mobs that we should split the mobs instead of wacking down the first one and then second one in quick time , and ending up with only ONE tank at half health instead of two, and not drawing out the battle to twice its normal length, and increasing the chance of adds.
    or the monk that INSISTS that "monks do the pulling" because of FD, even though i got my Bow and 557 AC and journymans boots and all the mobs are at worst yellow to me, and most are red to him and when he does pull he gets beat so bad taht he has to FD half way back to camp just to survive.
    and the chanters that INSIST the agro range of Sand Giant is small, and we are "safe" from him, even though you have no idea what so ever what way hes going to turn, and within a 3 or 4 steps he WILL be in agro range, and there is nothing worse than to be under goul root and see "a sand giant has hit you for 120 pts dmg" if any player thinks that a lvl 20 group is safe against a sand giant there an idiot and i dont want to group with them. if i can HEAR a SG to say nothing about being able to see one, then im too close. and i leave the area group or no. if it means i get booted from the group , then they loose a tank that is doing his best to keep his group alive and gaining exp at good rate all the wile making it his first priority that no one dies.

    my point is that its up to ME to play MY char MY way no matter what anyone else has or has not learnt. if everyone in the game suddenly became lvl 50 tomorow it shouldnt matter to YOU at all, YOU would have to be more carefull about who YOU grouped with. there is idiots galore out there, and ive found out that who i call an idiot today maybe the one person i need tomorow. people learn at different rates, i learnt the /loc command within the first 2 days of playing this game, and i learnt it on my own not by anone showing me, but im not supprised when i hear of lvl 35 players still not knowing how to use is, and in fact i make it a habbit now if im runing through a newb area and see a courps, i sent a tell to the courps owner and give them the loc and ask if they know how loc works, not only the how to find your way part, but the setting up the /loc hotkey and how to use it just before you die so you get it written down while your loading. most of the time i get a "i know thanx" but sometimes i get the "i dont know how to use loc" and then if they want i explane it too them.

    if your really worried about people getting to 50 and not knowing there jobs then SHOW them. dont just gripe about how you "had to walk 20 miles to school up hill BOTH ways, so you 'kids' got it easy" ill admit if a warrior gets all the way to lvl 50 with only a 10 skill in his taunt the he might not be the best person to group with, but then YOU leave, or you make HIM leave, but either way its up to YOU how YOU play, dont worry so much about what other people are doing.

    just because you got the number 60 next to your name, doesnt mean anything, any more than the number 23 means next to mine,or the number 5 means next to the next guy other than the fact you been wasting time on this game longer than we have.

    and finaly one last though. if you get to lvl 50 and your still doing "pickup" groups then YOU may have a problem with other people thinking YOUR an idiot. if your not in a guild by 50 and have a problem finding a group of people you have fought with before,or guild mates to group with, then other people "racing to 50" should be the least of your worries

    im not aiming this post at danziig directaly and im sorry if i gave that impression, but i see alot of what he ways in his post , in OTHER post, and i feal the need to speak my mind to ALL the high lvl players that are saying that people NEED to have hell lvls to "learn" how to play, and all the other foolish ideas that by making someone kill the same mobs 50 times more than normal that they somehow "learn" something by this other than to quit an otherwise good game because there boored out of their skull and have allready learnt anything that the are able to at there lvl.

    Edited, Sat Mar 16 22:09:43 2002
    RE: Give me a Break
    # Mar 16 2002 at 11:43 PM Rating: Decent
    You seem like a very smart person Doom, you sound like you know how to play pretty well, and you have a good point about learing the skill of leaving a group when you think someone is bad. Im gonna try to say this the best way i can without pissing ppl off. First off, i learned how to use the /loc command at lvl 35 for a few reasons first and formost this was way back when the game first started, noone knew anything about the game and NO ONE i mean NO ONE shared information back then it was all secret and crap. if someone found a new drop, would they tell abunch of ppl, no only thier friends so they could all get it. same type of thing, secondly there was no books that told you everything you needed to know about the game, had to learn it on my own. 3rd thing is, this is the first game of this type that i had played and i was pretty new to computers as well. And somehow i seriously doubt that you started playing the game and the first thing you did is figure out /location sounds pretty strange to me, unless there is a command like that in another game you have played. or you have a friend that got you into the game. Either way i dont believe you ( and thats just my opinion) and for being as smart as you seem to be i think it is kinda lame for flaming me for learing something at lvl 35 when the game first came out when there are alot of ppl 50 and up that dont know how to use it NOW, with all the books, and all the web sites and other places you can learn if just wanted to do it. Those didnt exist 3 years ago.

    next is the pick-up group thing. Hey not always are your friends on, and not always is everyone on in your guild. And the zones i mentioned in my post are normally considered Pick up zones cept for maybe chardok.

    nother thing, if you really think that a group of 55+ ppl are gonna go kill some green mobs to prove themselves to YOU so YOU feel good about how they play , then YOU will never get a group because they will all laugh at you because its absurd, you might be able to get away with it in oasis at lvl 23 man, but it dont work that way, you are expected to know how to play the game by then, that is all i was saying. and BTW how in the hell am i gonna know what a lvl 50 warriors taunt skill is, i would assume that it is maxed out, and if it isnt, that is what my whole freaking post was about.

    I aplaud you for i guess what you would call "sitcking up" for low lvl new players, but you just dont understand the high end game that well, althou i think for being lvl 23 you sound like you know what your talking about. i think you jsut got upset about my post because you are a rare new player that would be good at lvl 50, and have to go thru the hells ( or should i say woulda)

    Yeah, there is alot of stupid ppl that play this game and yes i try to avoid them, but at higher lvl it gets hard to point them out so quickly.

    as far as teaching ppl about the game, hey i do that all the time man, if a lvl 10-40 asks me how to use loc id be glad to tell them how to use it, i like helping peeps out. what im talking about is ( like in my post) a lvl 50+ person asking me for a port, i give them a loc to come to me cause im pretty busy, and they tell me can you come to me i dont know how to use loc that is what pisses me off. i think you misunderstood what i said. one day i took 4 hours showing a person who just logged in for the first time, how half the game worked. he thanked me for it then, talked with me as he lvled, asked me questons and i never had a problem with it. he is 47 now and i group with him now and again when we are both on. all my post was saying that there are too many ignorant ppl that play this game ( not stupid , ignorant) and by getting them to lvl that much faster, they will just stay ingorant. those idiots you were talking about in oasis, guess what man, we are gonna have to deal with them at high lvl soon now and they will still play that same way. Im sorry that your a good low lvl player and know what your doing and hell lvl will make you take longer to get up there, but remember this, you said you had to speak your mind to ALL the high lvl players talking crap, but think about this, your just defending all the morons you decribed in your post. and please, dont talk about the high end game if your not high, its a tad different than a group of ppl killing orcs or crocks in oasis. Sorry if i directed this at you Doom, but hey ya pissed me off about that loc at 35 thing. shows me you just ignored my entire post picked out one thing you thought was stupid ( and you didnit even think about WHEN i was lvl 35. 1999)

    Responding to your last post now, got a question why didint you say you talk with a lvl 56 person every day? why didnt you say you watch a person of that lvl play someitmes? you failed to mention taht the first time..why is that? because your points about being lvl 23 and knowing how the game works would be pointless then. A normal "new" player does not have that type of help with the game. your learing about the game wont have to come from going thru all the lvls because you were already shown how to do it in all those hours you talk about the game with your friend at work, so why did you even post. jeez pretend to have learned it all on your own, man how weak.

    Edited, Sun Mar 17 00:19:59 2002
    RE: Give me a Break
    # Mar 17 2002 at 2:32 AM Rating: Decent
    "Responding to your last post now, got a question why didint you say you talk with a lvl 56 person every day? why didnt you say you watch a person of that lvl play someitmes? you failed to mention taht the first time..why is that? because your points about being lvl 23 and knowing how the game works would be pointless then. A normal "new" player does not have that type of help with the game. your learing about the game wont have to come from going thru all the lvls because you were already shown how to do it in all those hours you talk about the game with your friend at work, so why did you even post. jeez pretend to have learned it all on your own, man how weak"

    this may or may not be moot now but i want to answer it anyhow. if you think about the difference in lvls between 23 and 56 you can see how my watching a 56 lvl dorf cleric going on a raid raid wont help me to play a 23 ogre warrior. and my friend hasnt played at lvl 23 for over a year now so his information is out of date for the most part. 99% of what i learned from him i will only be able to use 30 lvls from now. the simple fact of the matter is hes one of the "ignorant" people we are talking about. he does one thing and does it well enough to get by, but hes not a vast source of usefull information for me. he has no clue how to PLAY a warrior all though he knows how a warrior is played from his grouping with them (dont know if that will make sence or not) i learn more about raids by watching the other high lvl players he with do them while hes playing, than anything HES shown me.

    and in fact on more than one ocasion information ive gotten from him was just plane wrong. he tryed to convince me that INT was of no use at all to a warrior. and argued with me for weeks about this, even though INT is involved with the rate you learn skills. now i admit INT isnt really importiant to a warrior, but it DOES make a difference wether you concider it usefull or not. he argued that it didnt matter at all, not even to the extent of skill lvl speed.he said that skill lvl speed was based on str for warriors not INT. his theory is that str and AC were all that mattered to a warrior. sta didnt matter, agi didnt matter , dex didnt matter, just str and AC. and his information is based on his warrior group mates now. AC from what i understand is the be all and end all of lvl 50+ tanks, but its not to lvl 23, and what good is a wurmslayer to a lvl 19 with the damage cap? what good is cobalt armor as far as AC go's with the AC cap? he gave me alot of lvl 56 dorf cleric information but damn little lvl 1-23 ogre warrior information. and as soon as i found out he was totaly wrong about the INT thing, than i had no choice but to take every thing he told me with a grain of salt and reserch it for myself.

    id say in all honisty about 85% of what i know about this game i found for myself by reserch here and other places, and another 10% came from my own experiance, and the last 5 came from watching him play.

    the reason we got into the debate about INT in the first place was i was at lvl 20 and my 2HS was at lvl 5 , so i decided to equip INT items to get my 2HS skill up fast and sacrifice AC for it. just for the duration of my skill building. i had it all worked out that i would raise my INT to around 140 or so and loose 50 pts of AC for a half a lvl or so to get my 2hs to 100, thats when he told me because my STR was 160 that i didnt need to use INT equipment to lvl my 2HS cause INT didnt mater to warriors, only str did. so you can see that while i have "access" to information about high lvl play, i still have to interprit it for myself. he shows me alot but teaches me very little.
    RE: Give me a Break
    # Mar 17 2002 at 12:34 AM Rating: Decent
    danzigg i appologise for my "flame" about you not knowing how /loc worked till 35 , you didnt make it clear that you were that old of a player, i figured out /loc by a combination of fooling around with ALL the ingame information i could access, and by reading the books and going to websights like this one. and made an asumption that you were not that old of a player and that this information would still be secreat and classified, after all i had no trouble what so ever in finding out of first its existance and second how it worked. the first time i see and /shout loc neg 926, neg 3030 i wondered what that ment and did some reserch into it.

    and as for the ignorant people that play, it dont matter what lvl they are. you still have to deal with them right?

    and as for "you are expected to know how to play the game by then" i say if what you predict will come true (and btw i dont doubt it for a minute) then YOU will have to change how "things are done" at high lvls. and it will be up to you to find out how a person plays. and you cant use what is common practice now , to judge how things will be done if what you predict comes to pass. if you know that alot of lvl 50 players came up too fast and dont know there stuff wont that change how you approch pick up groups? now you can be pretty sure that any high lvl player has a fair grasp of his/her job but if as you predicted the 50ish lvls are flooded with ignorant players than its up to YOU to look out for yourself, the same as it is with me now, at lvl 23.

    and stupidity is stupidity no matter if your killing crocks in oasis or Vox in permafrost, im just as dead when i see the "loading please wate" as you are. only thing is chances are i dont have a lvl 50+ cleric in my group to rez me on the spot and give me most of my exp back, or a wizzy/druid to TP me back from my bind point 6 zones away, or that uber 1 shot rez stick of my own to use. or any of the other advantages that high end players earn. in fact death at high lvls isnt nearly as hard to recover from as a death at my lvl can be. (dont forget i got a high lvl cleric m8 whome ive se in action on raids by looking over his shoulder wile he was on one)

    i understand where your coming from. if i spent years getting to lvl 60 and was enjoying being able to play the game and have access to things that most of the players dont have now, and VI came along and made your "club" easyer to join id be pissed too. in fact i can agree 100% with seperating the casual player from the serious one, and the idiots, from the people that want to play this gmae in a serious way and get rewarded for there work and effort by being alot better than the average ****,and i myself want to join your club and i will sooner or later, but the fact is at the end of the day we all pay the same ammount of money to play the same game, and if the vast majority of the game are not willing to pay to play a game in the way that a few high end people find "right" then the majority will win out. its not the 100 lvl 60 chares on each server that is paying the bills. its the vast majority of "idiots" that are casual players and dont have the dedication to play this game in the way you had too.

    trust me i would much rather have the top players be the best of the best, it will mean far more to me when and if i ever get there, but im just one man, and so are you, and at the end of the day were out voted by the bottom line. EQ isnt anything more than just a game , and a busness, and VI will do what the ned to do to get the most ammount of people playing as they can. it sucks for those of you that have worked for what you have, but if VI did anything else than ALL of us wouldnt have ANY game to play at all.

    i really didnt mean my last post to be as harsh as it reads, and im sorry to have pissed you off , but there just wasnt any better way to say what i was trying to say.
    RE: Give me a Break
    # Mar 17 2002 at 1:08 AM Rating: Decent
    Good respond post, im going to bed after this, i just want to reply to one thing that you said. I think you are wrong when you say the majority will make them add and change things about the game. The Uber of the Uber are always searching for new content. verant puts more work into the high end game than any other area, and they listen to the hard core players more than anyone. This is a fact and the reason is, IF those ppl leave the game for something new, then all the weekend "warriors" WILL follow. There hasnt really been a game that has offered the type of game play everquest does. But thre will be and they know its coming soon. They are scared ******** about the hard core ppl leaving . Do they think we didnt notice Brad and all of the other creaters of this game leave? Well i KNOW the high end croud noticed and know that he ( brad) is working on another game.

    This is where the getting the casual player to high lvl fast comes in, they know they are going to lose thier hard core players soon, and if they can get some of the more casual players to high lvl fast they hope that those players can replace the ones that left b4 they see all the 60's poof and think, damn im playing the wrong game.

    Thats the only reason i can think of them doing all this crazy stuff for the pre 50 croud all at ONCE and announcing it publicly. They want them to know that hey, you can be up there too.b4 they leave forever. They NEVER used to announce whats going on in a patch, other than the test server that ppl watch for changes. But in the last 6 months they have been acting really strange and i think they just have some pressure from upstairs at Sony to keep this multi million dollar a month machine going. At least as long as they can. im kinda tired not sure if this all made sense but it sure did in my head. hehe night all, dont worry about flaming me hehe, i said i dont care, but i didnt say i wouldnt
    respond)
    RE: Give me a Break
    # Mar 17 2002 at 2:06 AM Rating: Decent
    I agree with almost all of what you commented on.
    Being a Paladin I look forward to the new rezzes, though having that many new rez spells might be a little excessive.

    As far as that /loc comment back up there.
    You would be totally amaized how many people I have seen above level 40 don't have sense heading. That's kinda insane.

    And I am in total disgust that they are taking away the hell levels. I firmly agree that they are there in place to slow people down. All this PLing crap just ticks me off. Taken a year for me to get to 50 and 1 week after Luclin came out I saw a level 50 Beastlord (what crap).

    As far as the comment about Verant making this game with higher level areas so Hard Core people will not leave... Well heck, let them go. There are over 100,000 people playing this game everyday. If 1000 people or so decide to quit then so be it. I'll still be here and I might actually be able to play instead of having massive guilds take over an area that people wanted to go explore or have fun in (also jumping schedualed raids).

    Bah I'm tired and ranting and raving.

    Again I agree with almost all of your comments.
    I hope they seriously look these changes over carefully.
    RE: Give me a Break
    # Mar 17 2002 at 1:48 AM Rating: Decent
    hmm i see it in a slightly different way.

    i dont understand the thinking that if all the lvl 60 players left EQ than most of the rest would. i know i wouldnt.

    and maybe VI has smartend up and STOPED the foolish notion of catering to the "uber of the uber". the vast majority of people that play this game will never be "uber" and could care less how many lvl 60 people are playing. they only care about getting to lvl 60 themselves. it dont matter to me at all if there is 1 lvl 60 char on my server or 2000, its not effecting me at all one way or another.

    maybe Vi is relizing that by creating a lvl 50+ good ol boys club and gearing everything around them, that they are loosing alot of support from people that pay the same $10 a month that a lvl 60 does. in my opinion the millions that EQ makes every month should be more than enough to support ALL types of players.

    id be far more apt to leave EQ for a simaler game that i didnt have to do infernal med's for 20 or 30 minute's than i would because all the 50+ players left. after all im very sure that when i reach lvl 50 and have done everything im interested in doing, than ill move on to another game, i expect the lvl 50+ players now to do that.

    i can only speak for myself , but im not concerned one way or another about how many high lvl players there are on EQ. i enjoy the game, and best of all its established and i can play it without too many hassles, unlike new games that are coming out. wasnt it anarchy online that had so many bugs that it was almost unplayable? with reports like that about most of the other MMP games i prefer to stay with EQ, and wate and see what happenes with the other games before i make a switch. im following the star Wars MMP that sony is working on , and im pretty sure ill switch to that when it comes out because Sony has experiance with that form of game play because of THIS game, but my decision wont have anything to do with high lvl players moving on to new challenges from this game.

    in my opinion if EQ is to survive they HAVE to stop catering to the high end players and start making the lil people more importiant. this list of changes is a good start. after all why should a n00b pay to play a game where all the lvl 50s get all the cool new "fixes" and lvls 1 - 49 get ignored? they can just go play a new game like DAoC and become one of the "lvl 50's" themselves there alot faster and easyer than they can here.

    its all well and good to creat the "uber" club , but not everyone that pays to play this game has the time nor the inclination to join it. and its NOT the "uber" club that pays the bills, its the lil weekend "warriors" that do. and ignoring them , just because of some halfbaked notion that people will quit if the lvl 50s do is a good way to end up out of busness and someone else being the next EQ cash cow.
    RE: Give me a Break
    # Mar 16 2002 at 11:07 PM Rating: Decent
    *
    97 posts
    1) Most of the groups you enter into will be pick up groups, regardless of level. Beware the pickup raid, however.

    2) There are level 60 players who aren't good with locs -- and some of them are the best at what they do.

    3) The abilities of your group members are of ineffable importance. In the high level game, you are shackled to other people, no one can attain any real accomplishment alone.

    4) I would agree that hell levels are not necessary to "learning" the game. The argument that "We had to go through it, so they should to!" is still valid, however. You just can't appreciate that because you have not endured them.
    ____________________________
    Philip <Chill Mode VII>, Teek server, 60 monk
    Axcellent <Chill Mode>, Vaniki server, 105 zerker
    Rangerer <Scions of Time>, Agnarr server, 65 ranger
    Lifegiver <Iratus Lepus>, retired
    100 Druid, Xegony
    RE: Give me a Break
    # Mar 16 2002 at 11:55 PM Rating: Decent
    1) if you have no friends that play this game with you , or you choose not to belong to a large guild then im sure your right about pickup groups, but to say "Most" of my groups will be pickup groups is wrong. im allready grouping on a regular basis with people i know in RL, and with my guild mates. and i dont see that changin between now and lvl 50. (beware blanket statement's about how "most" people play)

    2) the /loc issue is a most very basic thing, and in my opinion i dont want to group with anyone if they cant understand /loc and how it works. from posts ive read about high end play, there is alot of complicated stuff that need to be timed right and skills that a player needs to understand how and when to use or alot of people die, and ANYONE that cant understand how to use /loc i dont want to be involved with if i have any choice at all in it.

    3)i know and understand this 100% i allready see how this works at my meager lil lvl of 23. i can do far more far faster and alot easyer in a group than alone. and even now there are some mobs that con green to me that i cant solo, i know its only going to get worse. just because your lvl 57 dont mean you have the market cornered on how to play the game. several of my RL friends play lvl 50 plus chars and we spend 8 hrs a day at work talking about EQ while running our machines. i hear about raid's and what not all the time. so just because im not involved in raiding atm that dont mean i dont understand how its done. in fact ive suggested tactic's to my higher lvl m8's that THEY didnt think of. the high end game is a toatly different thing than my present lvl but it dont mean im not able to understand how its done. ive sat at my friends house and watched him on raids with his 56 cleric. and see its a horse of a different feather, and i know how each class should work together to get the best results.

    4)"The argument that "We had to go through it, so they should to!" is still valid"
    how so? just because i dont have to set there till my eyes bleed killing the same mob over and over and over again makes you a better player than me? i cant appreciate getting my arm cut off in a buzz saw either, does that mean i need to do it in order to know how to run the saw the "right" way? should i be baned from runing a lumber mill because i didnt get my arm cut off?

    just because YOU lot had to slam your face into the brick wall called "hell lvl" does it make me any less good than you if i dont? you yourself said that you know a person that doesnt know how to use /loc and is still a good player, and yet because i dont have to kill the same mobs till my fingers fall off ill be somehow "less" of a player than you are? kinda hypocritacal of you isnt it? if he cant understand /loc and yet "survived" hell lvl that thats your measure of a good player?
    well ill be happy to have you think me a n00b, cause if thats the case you and i wont play together well anyhow.

    just because you have a 57 next to your name , that DONT make you Judge and Jury of who is and isnt a "good" player, and more than my 23 makes me one. maybe someday ill save your life , or you mine, and when and if that day comes will it matter that i didnt go through hell lvls?

    hell look at it this way, you get to "brag" about how you "survived" that trip to school uphill both ways and us 'kids' have it easy. you have done something that i can now never do. even if i was stupid enough to want too in the first place.
    RE: Give me a Break
    # Mar 18 2002 at 9:00 PM Rating: Default
    For Pete's sake people. The freaking /loc command is and has been included in EVERY player manual issued with the game from day one. If you stole a copy, got an account on Ebay or just didn't read the booklet that came packaged with the game than it's your ouwn d*mn fault you don't know how to use it.
    RE: Give me a Break
    # Mar 17 2002 at 12:08 AM Rating: Decent
    Hey doom, just read your last post, leared how to use loc at lvl 2 eh? i wonder if your lvl 56 cleric friend had anything to do with that. talk all day at work n stuff huh?, im sure he/she got you into the game as well. But since your in the mood to argue everything im sure i got this all arong huh? lol whatever man, hurry up and lvl your toon make 30 b4 they change it and get a lil taste of what the game was intended to be when they made it)
    RE: Give me a Break
    # Mar 17 2002 at 1:01 AM Rating: Decent
    i told ya how i found about about how to use /loc in my last post above.

    just so you have some perspective on my opinion, im a 30 year old "retired" Marine in real life who now is a forman in a factory, who well and truly understands the value of getting experiance on my own in everything i do.

    i am extreamly **** about finding out every scrap of information i can about anything i do. and have spent as much time in websights reading about this game and taling to my friends about this game as i have playing this game.

    the first day i loged onto the game my friend wanted to PL me on my shammy till i hit 9 to get my SOW spell cause it was "what i really had to have as a shammy" and i told him no. i had no clue what i was doing, and a SOW would do me no good if i didnt know how to do the most basic things yet. i play this game at my own pace and learn my own way. it really pissed him off that i wouldnt let him show off and PL me, but i knew it wouldnt help me to become good , and be able to do things for myself. if i started to depend on him to "twink" me or PL me then i would ALLWAYS have to depend on him, and thats just not the Marine way. in fact i made the mistake of letting him talk me into playing a shammy in the first place and i didnt really enjoy that class, so i switched to a warrior and played for a few months on my own befoer i let him know i had it so he wouldnt bother me with wanting to twink me and PL me.

    in fact, while he is far ahead of me in lvls he would be the fist one to tell you that i know how to play the game as well or better than he does. and like i have stated before i have suggested tactics to him on ocasion. i can (and have on occasion) step into his char and play it as well as he does. but my own chars are limited to lvl 23 atm ive only been playing for 4 months now , and the last 2 months i couldnt play at all because of the upgrade, and the fact that my system was crap.

    i posted above that im sorry for my "flame" about you not learning /loc till 35 ill just assume that our post went up at the same time,as that one and that your sorry for this "flame" =D
    RE: Give me a Break
    # Mar 17 2002 at 1:21 AM Rating: Decent
    post went through at the same time i think man. I Didnt get to read that post till after i posted again, i type slow still hehe. Im 25 and i work at a factory too heh. <----- is no kid) Its all in good conversation my friend, we all have our points) and we all think ours are right hehe. eyes are red going to sleep).
    RE: Give me a Break
    # Mar 16 2002 at 8:34 PM Rating: Default
    You talk a lot about learning the game, and how these changes will in some way prevent or slow down people from learning the finer points of EQ gameplay. I think that some of these changes will actually promote new learning experiences.

    First, you have the added exp bonus in dungeons. I never went into a dungeon until I was about level 30 (splitpaw) because the reward-to-risk ratio just didn't make it worth it. If low level folks have a better incentive to venture into some dungeons, then they will be forced to learn the important tactics of how to play and stay alive in them.

    Also, it doesn't take 35 levels to learn how to rearrange my spellbook. They changed this simply to remove a nuisance. It's a bad sign when people are finishing 1000 page novels in a week while playing EQ becuase there's nothing to do but stare at your spellbook. Granted, it doesn't make much difference when soloing, but in group situations, being able to watch a battle while medding can be extremely valuable, coinsidering that not everything comes across the chat window (There's no message that says "An Orc Centurion is running right at you!" -- you have to see or hear it).

    I have to admit that I kinda liked the hell levels in the game as a moment of pause to slow down the pace. You mention that it is a time to meet other people. Actually I found the opposite to be true. At hell levels, you have a greater separation between those classes who solo well and those who must group. It's expected that soloers will level faster, but I personally saw that the hell levels widen the gap more than normal. For me that decreased the quality of the gameplay between the various classes.

    As for the pre-10 corpseless play, I don't think that this take away much from the learning experience of the game. You still have to find your way back to the group you may have been in. You still have to re-memorize your spells, etc. Besides, I believe one of the main reasons for this change is to improve performance, and not so much for playabilty. By removing all those corpses from the game, that frees up resources for the machines that serve up the game. You can hardly complain about a decrease in lag.

    Overall, I like the changes, but we'll all have to see how they turn out. I definitely think they made these changes at the request of the majority of players. The squeaky wheel gets the oil.


    Kelderek
    Lvl 51 Wanderer of Tunare
    Alliance of Elder Mystics
    The Seventh Hammer
    RE: Give me a Break
    # Mar 16 2002 at 8:30 PM Rating: Default
    you got some good points in i have comtemplated at the changes very hard so im off to do a experiment with my friend he has a lvl 60 sk took him aalmost 7 month to get there that was playing with me 4 hours a day every day basically (btw that was non twink) so we going to do the same thing after the patch and we going to create each one character and lvl it he is going to play a druid since he dont have on and im going to play a sk and we going to go add it i will post the results eather on the thread or the druid / sk theard so looks for them !!
    changes
    # Mar 16 2002 at 7:40 PM Rating: Default
    Well I have to say that all of these changes Look good to Me....

    1. Rezes at lower lvls--Give you higher lvl clerics a Lil Break of Newbies Begging you for a Rez and It will Save a lot of Time for anyone Who can't Bind themselves Close bye Time From running through 3 to 5 diffrent Zones for a CR.

    2. Casters--- I play a Wizard and Love the Hell out of Her and I like to Hear that they are improving us a Lot more. No More Looking at a book for a Low Lvl I say Heck yeah...I always Hated Having to Look in that Dumb Book cause I loved to See the Mob that We were killing. and Did I see focus Items...WOOT!

    3. xp Gain and Hell Lvls---Awsome! I did exactly what A few of You said and Worked on my Crafts and Went Exploring alot. Was fun but Felt like it took forever and ever to Acomplish them. And Notice that they said the Word "ALMOST" in that Sentance. I also Like the Ideas of How they are Revamping the Dungeons for lower Lvls....It was a Mistake for me as a Wizard not to hunt in them some of every Clases Best Items Drop In dungeons and Half of them are so Under camped you see the High lvls farming them anyhow...So /cheer VI

    4. New Chat channels for Raids...This Is awsome and Throw in the Messages you get After you Zone That make is Double.

    I applaud all that VI is doing for this game and I have been Playing from almost Day 1 of EQ and I still am just as Addicted as I was then. I have to say that I am What you would call a Casual Player and have almost all of My Character slots Full So I hope to See all the Diffrences on all of My Characters.

    Tinian Arklane
    52 wizardress
    Kwenu D'lan
    25 Warrior
    Terris-thule Server
    My opinion
    # Mar 16 2002 at 7:38 PM Rating: Default
    Some of these changes seem to me like a HUGE mistake. Making it easier from levels 1-10 is just making it easier for people to get to mid-range levels and not know what they are doing. This change is quite possibly my biggest gripe. I understand entirely that they want to encourage mid level raiding to help people learn their class roles...and I can understand why they would think making 1-10 easier would help...but they simply contradict. I would rather have someone who spent 6 months getting from 1-10 and learned every little bit about their class than someone who blew through 1-10 in 3 hours and knows nothing. A better way to encourage raiding is to make downsized versions of current zones. For example...

    Make an extension of BlackBurrow. The zone could be in blackburrow somewhere accessable easily by people who could survive in this new zone. the average mob level could be something like 18-22 with some special mobs (such as undead gnolls, skeletons, or even a racial NPC all with names) to act like rares, and to fill in for big baddies like Vox and Naggy...this zone alone would be crowded with raiders/hunters all the time.

    RE: My opinion
    # Mar 16 2002 at 11:19 PM Rating: Default
    i love the idea of dungeons that are set up for mid lvl chars to raid let me first say that , before i blast your other points.

    how exactly does one learn anything by killing spiderlings or bear cubs and dodgin the occasional vengfull composer 500 times?(bet ya cant guess what race i started as ) my first 10 lvl's were spent "grinding" i knew i wasnt high enough lvl to do anything like travil, or learn a trade skill, or explore before lvl 10 at the LEAST. and i was lvl 12 before i went to black burrough for the first time, but by lvl 3 i had learnt enough to go there and survive just fine.

    and your arguemets about people "who spent 6 months getting from 1-10 and learned every little bit about their class " is foolish if you look at it. you are NOT able to learn ANYTHING about your class untill you get the class specific skills or spells you need to learn in the first place. its very hard to know how to taunt properly if your taunt skill is caped at 15. or how to time a stun against casters if your only fighting spiderlings, or that because you can solo yellow mobs at lvl 3 you will die quick time if you try yellows at lvl 20.

    there is nothing to learn pre lvl 10 except how to click mele and stand there till something drops (or cast a buff or two on yourself or pet if your a caster) and if it takes you 6 months to learn how to run instead of walk and how to use /loc and /con and /hail and how to buy and sell loot then there is no hope for you anyhow.

    you dont learn ANYTHING of value to your class specific playing ability pre lvl 10 and alot higher in some cases, as long as you can solo just fine then your not learning ANYTHING about your class skills, and i find that its often, not that i dont know how to play MY class so much as it it i dont know what OTHER classes do. its hard as a barb to know how a cleric works, or an enchanter, or any non barb class. i had no idea what a bard was good for untill lvl 18 when i had an ocasion to group with one and i did some reserch into bards on my own to see what they could do. and as a shammy i find that most people lvl 20 or below have no clue how a shammy is supposed to be played, they just assumed i was there to cast SOW and to heal and buff the tank. they didnt relize that i could debuff/slow the mob so our tank didnt need a heal at all. when a mob gos from doing 20 pts dmg every few seconds, to 1 or 2 pts dmg once in a great while they never noticed. all i got was "set and med so you can heal me". now you tell me is it better to debuff a mob so it does 20 pts dmg per fight rather than 200 pts dmg, or should i set and med to cast **** poor shammy heals over and over so our tank feals like hes safe because he see "you have been healed for 80 pts" rather than taking the time to read the battle text and notice that the damage hes taking has droped through the floor, or the half whit that thinks that it would be a really keen idea that i root a mob so that he doesnt have to chase it, even though the bash/slam is far more effective in those situations and doesnt cause the mob to turn back and fight causing even more down time to regain health that you lost on fighting a mob that wanted to run anyhow.

    you have to be a high enough lvl to even be able to be in these situations in the first place in order to learn anything. and lvls 1-10 aint it. i didnt learn anything usefull about grouping untill atleast lvl 10 when the classes really started to have a noticable difference.

    in my opinion lvls 10-30 are the prime time to "learn" what you need to know about how to fight your own class and to learn how other classes should interact with you. pre lvl 10 is a foolish waste of time your too weak to do anything but kill grass snakes and such and what are you learning thats importiant there, that you dont allready know after the first 5 times you kill one?

    how do you learn how to raid if your too weak to survive a dungeon? even if your a green as grass n00b and never played EQ before you still have no use for groups pre 10 insofar as being able to learn how to play your class its just a case of "everyone mele it to death". there is nothing TOO learn pre 10.

    and i also dont buy the "learning from the courps run" line either what do you learn by doing a courps run? not to die? well *doh* i never once, not ONE TIME ever "lost" my courps. there is allways something your next too that you can look at wile your loading to use as a land mark, and if your foolish enough to go running into places without looking around and geting your bearings then you are too stupid to bother with anyhow. even in places like so ro it was allways with me something like "im 2 dunes away from the big rock tower by the dervs camp"
    or in everfrost it was im by the first gobby camp on the left, or im at the platue in front of bandle, or by the "y" in the river. or one vally over from permafrost. i have never once need to use /loc to find my body and ive been in loads of zones all over the place both dark and light ones, if your unsure of a zone and dont know your way around use the paths, or come here and print a map, or look for landmarks its not that hard. and its all stuff that came natural to me and i suspect many people. if you have to "learn" how to do a courps run your too screwd to play anyhow, and should go back to checkers with your grandpa.
    hell levels again
    # Mar 16 2002 at 7:29 PM Rating: Decent
    I dunno if this is the case... but I have a feeling that you'll still need around the same amount of exp to get from 1-50 post-patch as you did before.

    They said that they were going to remove hell levels... they didn't say that they were making them half as easy to get through. If that was all they had to do, it would have been done a long time ago. I suspect they smoothed out the amount of experience you need to get to the next level, rather than having a large leap in one level as they do now. That would make each level slightly harder to get through then the last, with the end result being the same as when hell levels existed. This makes more sense to me because it's harder to implement without having side effects (VI stated before that they didn't remove hell levels because of "unwanted side effects"). Maybe VI also likes the amount of exp it takes to get to 50 now (with hell levels), and they were seeking a way to maintain that amount of exp in total but remove the frustration of hell levels. It just took a while to figure out the best way to do that.

    Also... hell levels are bad, and clearly at least twice as bad as other levels, but I think people are overstating how much exp they are. Even if they are simply removing hell levels by making them half as easy (and like I said, I don't believe that), is the amount of additional exp it takes to go through those levels really enough to make a low level character FLY to 50? I don't think so. Seriously folks, it still takes a good deal of time to get from 1 to 50 even if you pretend hell levels aren't there, and it takes even more time for an "idiot" who doesn't know where to go to hunt or can't get a group because he/she's such a bad player. Not everyone plays the 5+ hours a day it would take to "fly" to 50. And if they do, and they suck, don't group with them, don't bring them in your guild or on raids, or (best of all) teach them how they *should* play correctly to make them a better player that might just benefit you.
    Unfair
    # Mar 16 2002 at 7:18 PM Rating: Decent
    I think the reason most people are against the hell lvls being tooken out are it is just unfair to those who have already went through them numerous times. I have been through 30,35,40,and 45 2 times on my mains. I been through 30 5 more times on my alts and 35 2 more times. My monk is currently on 40 and it makes me a bit upset that i have had to go through all these hell lvls and now they are just doing away with them. Sure they are easy compared to 50+ but it still sucks. This is like when they took the hybrid xp penalty away. Got my paladin to 51 then they take it out. All my chr would be 40+ now if there were no hell lvls not only becuase the xp would have been easier to gain, but also becuase I would not be losing a bubble of orange xp post hell lvl after i die without a rez. Just my input
    Pretty Lame
    # Mar 16 2002 at 7:05 PM Rating: Decent
    I agree with the last post, the hell levels limit the idiots from the true players to some extent, us semi-high end players don't need to worry toooo much about idiots. However, with this patch, we are more likely to see certain clowns grouped up with us, as if we dont have enough in-game as it is. I believe they honestly made a few mistakes on these patches. Another question is, what about the players who have went through those fun-fun lvls, and get nothing for it? I think VI is kinda slacking on keeping things at "fair play" for everyone, and honestly, if they want to do anything, they should stop slacking and work on more ideal problems.


    Well, just my 2cp, like it matters <shrug>

    Korra L'Veldriss 54 Dark Elf Shadowknight (CT)
    Sabanak Swiftfists 47 Iksar Monk (CT)
    Selinia Darkangel retirement<sigh> 55 Dark Elf Wiz
    Doh
    # Mar 16 2002 at 6:58 PM Rating: Decent
    Hehehe, Kinda sad hell levels are going away:) My main just hit 39 and now I can't laugh at my friend who is 29 and two hell levels behind me:( guess he's gonna catch up fast so I need to go level:P
    hell lvls
    # Mar 16 2002 at 6:52 PM Rating: Decent
    i dont see the problem with removing hell lvls, in fact i would be just as happy to see lvl's go away totaly. people are only interested in skills or spells, and the lvl's in the game only matter because of what lvl you get your skill/spells at.

    when i played my shammy i dont remember any specific lvl between 14 and 19. and thats because i got one set of spells at 14 and didnt get another till 19. so 15-16-17-and 18 were just a number. the ONLY lvl that matter was 19.

    what difference would it make if 15-18 were all still concidered 14 and 19 was called "15"? im not gonna care about my lvl again untill i get enough exp to get my 19 spells anyhow.

    if it takes 2,000,000,000,000,000 exp points to get all the skills and spells of a lvl 60 char , what difference does it make what number is next to your name? its still the same ammount of time and effort in the end, and maybe if lvls were gone all together and it was based on exp requirements for skills and spells then any shammy over lvl 9 wouldnt get spammed to death for SOW's and druids for ports and so on and so forth. no one would know what anyones skills and abilitys are unless the person told them. i could be a shammy that can canniblize before i could SOW if that was my choice to use my exp twards that spell instead of SOW, or i could devote all my exp i get from the first 6 lvls just towards SOW only and get it at "6" instead of "9" only it would be my only spell. lvls dont matter at all in this game , its just a marker on the path to some skill or spell you need after you get enough exp to use it.

    in the end i like the game as it is now, and i would like it if it was changed, but there is so much stuff to see and do, ANY path to "lvl 60" is the game. the "goal" is to have fun on the journy. lvl 60 shouldnt matter, after all the game is "over" then.

    i guess some people would complane if they were hung with a new rope
    RE: hell lvls
    # Mar 16 2002 at 7:58 PM Rating: Decent
    I like the sound of what your talking about man,no lvls, very interesting idea. But not with everquest, maybe a brand new game, but not this one, too many ppl would quit)
    Hell lvls
    # Mar 16 2002 at 5:40 PM Rating: Good
    I'm fine with the changes - what can i do but try to adjust right? But on the subject of hell lvls:

    Honestly, I've never for one minute believed that hell lvls were a mistake - it's too coincidentally VERY sound psychology ;-p lol ... ever heard of a variable reinforcment schedule? It's easy to feel manipulated when one thinks of it that way but the fact remains that having a rolling flow of challenges fosters interest and periodically gives a special sense of accomplishment. If I'd designed the game, I'd have put them in on purpose (tho loathed myself for the manipulation) and i just can't really believe that Verant didn't do just that.

    This is, admittedly, part of a reply I put in below, but i wanted to put it up as a separate comment because, amazing to me as it is, no one else seems to mention it.

    So as much as people (incl. myself) want to hate them, that is specifically part of what makes the game valuable to us, ties us to it - when we have crossed that seemingly endless plateau of 45, its like a badge of honor. I can totally understand why people don't want to give that up.

    (oh, and it makes no sense that they took out the pre-50 hells and left in 54 and 59 (not clear on how 51 stands atm)... comon, make up your mind VI - excuses excuses hehehe ;) )
    Cool, but...
    # Mar 16 2002 at 5:28 PM Rating: Good
    Ok. I must say many of these new fetures sound new and exciteing, and I greatly look forward to haveing them added into Live servers. But I dont like the fact that they are makeing succor/evacuate/resurect/summon corpse/ "more available". One thing that every cleric looks forward to is getting resurect at 29. Now they give it to paladins and make it lower level. Noting against hybrids, but These spells they are changing are very defineing spells to those specific classes. And when they give them to other classes, it takes away from that special feeling that I, the cleric, am the only class can do this. Same with summon corpse. I mean, common, they allready screwed many newbie casters out of their only source of cash (soul binders) and now they are ******** them out of their only way to make money, period.
    Sorry about any text or grammar errors, I didn't proof read.

    Kazadorm Blightsbane <Sons of Kings>
    Cleric of the 30th cicle
    Rodcet Nife Server
    RE: Cool, but...
    # Mar 16 2002 at 10:56 PM Rating: Default
    necro's can also exp rez
    RE: Cool, but...
    # Mar 17 2002 at 12:58 AM Rating: Default
    I wouldn't actually count necro's as being able to experience rez. I mean sure they can do it, but to do it someone over level 50 has to be willing to die without being able to be rezzed so that the necro can get the item neccessary to cast the rez. Kind of kills the purpose of the rez don't ya think?
    RE: Cool, but...
    # Mar 16 2002 at 7:15 PM Rating: Decent
    Paladins have always gotten exp rez, just at level 59.
    First Letter
    # Mar 16 2002 at 3:50 PM Rating: Decent
    Where are the details from the first letter sent? I cannot find them and would like to know what the other changes are besides these.

    Thanks
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