Class Re-Envisioning

A Developer's Corner post regarding "class re-envisioning:" ........................................................... Over the course of the last few months, since we announced this project, we have had numerous discussions on the classes. During these discussions we identified some key changes, that are relatively easy for us to implement, that could result in better gameplay for all of you. While this is far from complete (the process and this list) it is the start of this class re-envisionment, reflections, redefinition, whatever we all decide to call it besides balance. Some of these changes you see on this list will make it live for our April 6th update. Others we would like to hear your thoughts and ideas on before continuing. We think that there are some very positive changes here, some of which kind of go against the grain of EQ gameplay. So let the discussion begin; We'll start with some general gameplay changes that either affect all classes or multiple classes. General We are removing the level 55 fear cap and adding advanced spells to the fear lines to make them current. Now, this doesn't mean that all NPCs can be feared, we will be making use of a no-fear flag to stop potential game-play problems. We will remove the hard coded aggro generated by poison based debuffs which will result in some DoTs and Tash generating less aggro than they currently do as well as more consistent aggro generation. We are going to spread spell progression out for levels 1 to 50 to reduce the levels gaps between gaining new spells. We would like casters to gain new spells every level and enjoy more even progression. We are planning to add new abilities and disciplines to non-casters and spread those out between levels 1 to 50, along with their current abilities to make sure non-casters also have progression, in the form of a new ability, every level. Pet owners will be able to click off any buffs they do not want their pet to have. We are changing many of the all-or-nothing immune flags so they mitigate the effect instead. We want you to use your abilities on most NPCs, but where we feel the ability might be problematic the ability will have a lesser effect. You will see the healing messages for Heal Over Time spells. There will also be a filter for this new message. We will change the potion "Essence of Concealment" from invisibility to improved invisibility and make the components easier for alchemists to find. All spells will check for immunity before they are cast. So if the target is immune, the spell will not generate aggro for the caster. We would like ammunition to auto-feed from your inventory directly to the ranged slot. We are eliminating the +mana cap. We are removing the inherent resist rate from rain spells. Solo Play EverQuest is a group-based game we all know that but we also know that there are times that many of us like to hunt alone. Some of our classes can solo effectively, while others can't. We plan to make changes to classes that struggle with soloing to allow them some solo play. These changes will be made to only affect their abilities while solo and not affect how they perform in groups. 1. We are still discussing the best way to go about this but some of the options we have discussed are listed here; a. Add healing potions to the game. To prevent this from unbalancing the group game, we need to be careful how these potions work. They may need to be a healing potion that does heal-over-time and does not stack with any other healing spells. Another option is simply having a long reuse on the potion so its effectiveness in a group situation, where the player is generally taking on much more difficult NPCs, is not affected much. b. We are exploring class abilities that add the pieces needed to solo while also taking away the abilities that make them useful in a group situation. An example of this is a warrior ability that increases their defensive abilities and gives them a damage boost, but causes them to be able to generate nearly no aggro while the ability is in effect, so the warrior would not be able to tank for most groups Class Specific Changes Now onto the class changes. We know that this is what most of you are looking for and we think we have a pretty solid plan. Again, as I mentioned above, this is just the beginning folks. Our team is still crunching numbers and other changes are dependent upon that data. We will not be making any changes to melee DPS, tanking and other combat balance issues until that data is completed and we see what effects these changes have on gameplay. We ask that you please discuss these changes on your class board. And please folks, be constructive. If you think the ideas have no merit, say why. We can't work on it with you with bad feedback. OMG This SUXXORS is not going to help. Bards We will be increasing your instrument mod cap and using itemization to limit the inherent power gains. This also means that certain songs will have built in maximums to prevent them from scaling indefinitely. Beastlords We will add at least one new slow spell for you which has an innate resistance mod built in so that it lands more often. This will help you perform the role of slower in your groups, since you don't have access to the powerful resistance lowering spells of other slowing classes. We will be boosting your healing so it stays on par with ranger healing when we improve ranger heals. We want to assure pet classes that we believe you should be able to use their pets in most gameplay situations, including raids. We believe that pet classes do not have many problems with pets on raids at the moment, but want you to understand that we intend for you to use pets on raids and if you find that there is a problem, we will find ways to correct it. We will be increasing the availability of pet focus items, particularly for the more casual players. We will be looking into the casting time of some of your pet healing spells and reducing the casting time where appropriate. Berserkers Many Berserker complaints are about their damage output and this isn’t something we can really address without the results of the number crunching. Our thoughts are that you are fine at lower levels and pretty decent at high levels with your AAs, but you may need some help at the mid levels. Should our numbers support our thoughts, we will be adjusting things so your damage progression is smoother across the levels. We are looking into the endurance cost of many of your abilities and lowering them as necessary. We are looking into adding throwing quivers that grant innate haste similar to normal quivers. Clerics With Dragons of Norrath you gained two new spells that you seem to enjoy; Mark of Vengeance and Mark of Retribution. We will be changing these spells into full spell lines that you get early on and that scale up as you level. We want to make your Turn Undead spells effective at all levels. Some of the suggested changes include: a. Changing the fear part of the spell so the rest of the spell still works even if the fear fails or removing the fear portion of the spell entirely. b. Adding a strong snare effect. Druids Druids are a unique challenge in that the class is divided evenly between you offensive druids who enjoy doing damage, and you defensive druids who prefer to play the role of healer. We want to support both play styles, but if we were to increase both halves of the druid equally the class would quickly become overpowered. Our plan is to introduce a new option where a druid can enter into a particular “mode” or “stance” where they become better at one part at the expense of the other. Our preferred solution for this is to add an innate ability for druids. The ability would get its own button similar to abilities such as backstab or track. You will be able to be in one of three states and can switch between them once every 5 minutes. a. Normal – Their healing and offensive abilities are in balance. This is the state they exist in today. b. Offensive – Their offensive power is boosted by 25%, but they suffer a 50% reduction in the power of their healing spells. c. Defensive – Their healing power is boosted by 25%, but they suffer a 50% reduction in the power of their offensive spells. Another of our goals is to broaden the core grouping roles to allow all classes to more easily put together groups. Similar to how any of the 3 main tanks should be able to perform that role in a group, we want any of the 3 healers to be able to perform the role of a main healer in a group. The changes mentioned above for druids will allow you to fill a healing role and perform at about 80% of the effectiveness of a cleric. Enchanters We will add higher level upgrades to the Word of Morell spell line. We plan to change the way mana drain works. In the past the spell had diminishing effects on NPCs above level 53. We will be removing that limitation so you can use Theft of Thought on higher level caster NPCs and we can introduce more powerful spells in that line, in the future. However, we will also be changing drains so that they only return the mana the NPC has instead of always returning the full amount. If an NPC only has 100 mana and your spell does a 400 drain, you will only get 100 mana. This is a necessary change as most NPCs, including non-casters, are given small amounts of mana in order to power some innates. We all know that the power of NPCs has climbed and the difficulty in charming NPCs has retreated. This has led to an imbalance where you were able to charm NPCs that do far more damage than ever intended and with minimal risk. This lead us to the unfortunate decision to make many NPC's uncharmable. With OOW, we introduced a change to charm that allowed us to make most NPCs charmable again, but reduce their effectiveness and remove the gameplay imbalance. We did this by reducing their stats while charmed. This presented some new problems though, the largest of which is you like to haste and buff your pets to get the most out of them and when the charm breaks, you face a much more powerful NPC. We have a plan to ensure charm’s usefulness and want to gather your opinion before putting it into motion. a. We want charm to be an integral part of your gameplay. You should be able to grab a charmed pet in most circumstances and use that to benefit your group. b. We will be looking at the stats NPCs use when charmed to ensure they are within the intended range. c. We would like to add innate buff effects to enchanter charm spells. While an NPC is under the effects of the charm, they will also be under the effect of spells similar to what you would use to buff your pet. When charm breaks those effects will go away so you are only dealing with the NPC in its base state. d. The change mentioned above would cause further imbalance in zones where NPCs don’t currently lower their stats when charmed, the changes that were made in Omens will need to be made across the rest of the game and this will be the way new charm works in all of Norrath. e. After charm changes for all zones, we can go back and open up the use of charm in areas where it was previously excluded due to balance problems making charm much more usable throughout the game world. Mages We will be converting most, if not all, of your summons to place the items directly into the hands of the target. Of course, we will also need a new toggle that lets players turn off this ability from anyone not in their group, anyone not in their raid, or anyone at all. We will be adding new pet pack spells that contain the more used summoned pet item to help relieve the tedium of summoning many different items. We will be fixing Turn Summoned in a way similar to how we fix Turn Undead for clerics. See the cleric section for more details. We want to assure pet classes that we believe you should be able to use their pets in most gameplay situations, including raids. We believe that pet classes do not have many problems with pets on raids at the moment, but want you to understand that we intend for you to use pets on raids and if you find that there is a problem, we will find ways to correct it. We will be increasing the availability of pet focus items, particularly for the more casual players. We will be looking into the casting time of some of your pet heals and reducing the casting time where appropriate. Monks We will be reversing the AC mitigation reduction that you received during the Planes of Power era. Necromancers We will add new spells in the Screaming Terror line to give you some more combat utility. We want to assure pet classes that we believe you should be able to use their pets in most gameplay situations, including raids. We believe that pet classes do not have many problems with pets on raids at the moment, but want you to understand that we intend for you to use pets on raids and if you find that there is a problem, we will find ways to correct it. We will be increasing the availability of pet focus items, particularly for the more casual players. We will be looking into the casting time of some of your pet heal spells and reducing the casting times where appropriate. Paladins We want you to be a main tank in group situations. We believe that you are currently able to fill this role, but want to assure you that our intent is for a group to be able to grab a warrior, paladin, or shadowknight as their main tank and be effective with any of them. With DoN, you gained a limited form of defensive. We are monitoring your feedback and if you like this direction; we plan to make it a full spell line that begins at the level warriors get the defensive discipline. Rangers Rangers are good at many things and when all the parts add up properly, they’re a class that is in heavy demand. Our feeling is that the parts are not adding up properly in the current game. We are still digesting all of the DPS numbers and stats but in the meantime we identified a couple of things we can increase in the short term. a. We will be improving the damage you do through spells. b. We will be boosting your healing ability, particularly at the top end of the game. Rogues We will fix the problems with Assassin’s Feint so it works correctly and then gauge your reaction to the working ability. If it turns out to be something that you like, we will look into adding more combat utility through a similar means. We are looking into adding throwing quivers that grant innate haste similar to how normal quivers work Shadowknights We also want Shadowknights to be a main tank in group situations. We believe that you are currently able to fill this role, but want to assure you that our intent is for a group to be able to grab a warrior, paladin, or shadowknight as their main tank and be effective with any of them. With DoN, you also gained a limited form of defensive. We are monitoring your feedback and if you like this direction; we plan to make it a full spell line that begins at the level warriors get the defensive discipline. Shaman In DoN you received the spells Spirit of the Leopard and Spirit of the Panther. You seem to like these new spells and they have added more desirability for you in groups. We will be extending these into full spell lines so that Shaman of other level ranges can see the benefits from these spells. As with Druids, we are looking to increase your healing ability so you can function better as main healer in groups. You folks are a little problematic though, since your healing ability is the function of not just your heals, but your ability to reduce an NPCs damage output through slows. In a situation where an NPC is fully slowable, you are a superb healer but against an NPC who cannot be slowed, your healing falls behind. If we were to just improve your heals, you would quickly outshine any other healer when facing NPCs that can be slowed. So, we are investigating ways to improve your healing ability only in circumstances where an NPC cannot be slowed or you choose not to slow the NPC (for your own strange reasons). These changes will be rolled out at the same time as any druid healing changes to ensure that one class does not eclipse the other. Warriors Many of the ideas for changes to the warrior class are dependant upon the results of the data we are still compiling. However, we are looking into improving your ability to solo in the mid and high level game as well as; We are looking into the endurance cost of many of your disciplines and lowering them as necessary. We will increase the knockback on Press the Attack slightly. Wizards With DoN, you received more mana efficient nukes that are aimed at improving your sustained DPS. We will be extending this into a line of spells to help out with sustained DPS at different level ranges. We will fix Manaburn. Our preferred method is to uncap the ability and implement a cap based on the maximum percentage of health you can do in a single hit. So one of you, facing a million hit point boss mob (fairly common in today’s game) can expect a full manaburn to land for 10s of thousands of points of damage in one hit. Once again I would like to remind you that this is the beginning of the changes and there is still more to come. We encourage you to openly discuss these changes and let us know what you think. We want this to be a cooperative exchange and we will chime in on your discussions when appropriate. Thanks all. ...........................................................

Comments

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Manaburn
# Mar 17 2005 at 7:36 AM Rating: Decent
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50 posts
Finally manaburn will does more damage! Since it was nerfed the only thing good on that ability it was the unresistable part, 9.9k nuke is not bad but still need to do more damage.

Giving us group invis will be great too, after all we can invis everyone, why not all group in one cast?

Let us wizard be week melee fighters, we are pure casters and dont know nothing about melee techniques we should have better buff or damage absorber/shield when we got to deal with a mob who want to hugs us. Smiley: jawdrop
Chanters
# Mar 17 2005 at 1:56 AM Rating: Decent
Seems to me that the biggest impediment to charm is managing the inevitable break. This is why solo chanties usually charm in huge open spaces like The Overthere, The Grey, etc. I did not see much in the developer posting that would help improve our solo (and or small group - duo? trio?) experience to a point at which it could be used in a dungeon with reasonable risk.

Some thoughts on breaks:

- add a charm timer
- add more notice (messages) about 'You feel your charm begin to slip away'
- add pet specific spells that would remain after break
- - 30 sec root
- - 30 sec snare
- - memblur on break (might be ultra mana expensive)
- add a decreasing resistance to charm. So that if I charm a pet, and keep recharming that same pet, for every two times I charm it, make its resistance to charm decrease by 1/2. After 10 charms, it should be almost DC'ed - this particular suggestion is not limited to solo work. This more than anything else would get lower level players to use their charm --- and allow groups to support it, rather than forbidding young chanters to even try it.
- adjust the charm break rolls --> at level 58 with 255 CHA, I have had bears in WC (level 10?) break charm in the first 30 sec, even with Tashanian on them. That's just silly.
re:charm
# Mar 17 2005 at 1:12 AM Rating: Decent
all i know is that every time sony changes the chanter's charm, it becomes less fun to charm kite. I have watched them change it several times, and i haven't liked one change so far.

But, overall the changes seem ok. Everyone seems to be complaining about how their main class is going to be left behind, and i see an even range of classes complaining...so it can't be that bad eh? LOL.
necromancers
# Mar 16 2005 at 10:19 PM Rating: Decent
32 posts
As necro I DONT want an aggro reduction/spread on my poison dots. I use Blood of Thule to gain aggro easy when its needed, FD is more then enough of a tool to dump all aggro in a blink. It might be benificial to a shammy, but it reduces a necros CC ability.

I would love to see some more powertaps for necros, we now have mid 50 spells that tap AC/ATK/STA. The STA one got useless with the shammy pop spells and the atk/ac taps arent making a lot of difference when you play with tanks who have 2.5k AC or more.

Twitch needs an upgrade as well (its something I hate to do but if I have to do it I rather do it efficiently) give us a spell that empties our manapool and gives half of that to target or gives us some spell like the DoN shadow orbs which store mana to be cast on any target. I wouldnt mind having to do a 2k manatap that gives me an orb with 1k mana stored.

Pet tanking ability. Necro pets dont generate enough aggro for that. If i want a pet to tank I cant DoT (or have to use minor dots). Our pet heals are complete rubbish. Give us a complete heal for the pet or HoT or something. The 1k heal and 1.2k heals with their long recast dont cut it.

Where is the necros ability to do a component free rezz? Give us a spell that summons an EE from a slain mob or something. The only way to get an EE these days is by having a really big wallet or lvl-ing up an alt and sac him. Pick up grps seem to think those EE cost nothing as you are expected to rezz every1 up wipe after wipe and get nothing in return, can easily spend 3k pp on emeralds in a grp that lasts 2-3 hours. (A ****** up pull in Riftseekers, Tipt, Ikkinz will get you rezzing pretty fast)

Giving us mezz capabilty and fear back is a great thing. No longer being afraid of getting summoned when CC-ing just mezz or snare fear and kite it down while grp takes care of other mob.
RE: necromancers
# Mar 17 2005 at 5:22 PM Rating: Decent
Wow I thought I was the only one that thought this way. When the game was young I used to love my necro he had power and could solo.But I took a break from game for about 2 yrs Upon returning and pulling the old necro off the shelf I find that he. Isnt wanted in groups (And if they do want him its for dumping mana or to summon a corpse. )His cast times are rediculous and his damage is a joke (My friend has a druid Now talk about damage Wow she with three dots is doing about 1300 a tick )She is lvl 70 my necro is 67 with my three dots i do arround 1000 also it takes longer to cast mine and way more mana. HUM I THOUGHT NECRO"S were a Caster class maybe I was wrong I guess its the druid I should have started to get real damage thro casting. I have another Buddy He has a mage Wow he can sit back and watch his pet solo a guardian in Sol Ro it rocks with a few heals. My So called pet is a joke not only cant it solo it cant even hold agro and when I heal it well it takes so long before i can cast heal again that my pet is dead and i am fd the only way a necro can solo is by using our 1 min snare which takes more mana than you can regen in 1 min and at 67 i get resisted by murkgliders 4 out of 5 times the funny thing is i first try to use my resist debuff and it gets resisted.Any way back to soloing ok lets assume that i get darkness to snare it now i have to fear it if i dont my pet dies or i am constantly running. THE NECRO PET NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT . WE NEED A SNARE THAT LAST LONGER THAN 1 MIN or dastically lower the amount and time it takes to cast it AND in case we dont want to kite constantly some damage spells that make a group think we are worth somthing. Last night I was in OS with my buds and we were pulling whole zone for fun tring to get a few fabled pieces well my AOE was lvl 39 WHY SONY ?? I am so disapointed in the way the developer have Ignored Necro's . Oh by the way I have three Accounts and I have caracters in most classes IN MY OPINION THE TWO CLASSES THAT REALLY NEED TO BE REWORKED ARE NECRO"S AND RANGERS > Hey guys lets be honest do you ever want to group with ither WHY Anyway this is my first post in the 6 yrs game has been out thanks for listening all
Beastlords vs Shamen
# Mar 16 2005 at 10:11 PM Rating: Decent
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102 posts
Quote:
We will add at least one new slow spell for you which has an innate resistance mod built in so that it lands more often. This will help you perform the role of slower in your groups, since you don't have access to the powerful resistance lowering spells of other slowing classes.


No, no, please, for the love of God No.

Once you get towards the higher levels of the game (ie Tier 3+ planes, most to all GoD/OOW/DoN content), almost every mob mitigates slow to some extent. So yes, shamen have the best slow, but since the mobs mitigate, it's no better than Enchanter and Beastlord slows.

I've noticed that since I've moved on to mid-to-high game content, it is next to impossible for me to find groups. The reason is because when picking a slower, almost all groups go for either an enchanter (with Mez and crowd control) or a Beastlord (higher DPS). In addition to slowing, what do Shamen have to contribute to a group? Healing? Our best heals are pretty much worthless in an MPG or EP group, where a mob can one-round far more than our best heal can heal.

Enchanters have Tash, but the fact that we could Malos and help our slows land easier is pretty much the one advantage that we have over Beasties. Taking that advantage away from us will make it even more difficult to find a group.

Flame me if you want, but a Beastlord should be a backup slower, not a main slower. I'm quite tired of sitting in PoK buffing people for hours on end because my biggest asset to a group has been negated, and is on the verge of being negated further.
Berserker Damage
# Mar 16 2005 at 9:20 PM Rating: Decent
18 posts
I was playing my berserker today and with silver chitin handwraps and switching between a 19/30 and 36/42 weapon his dps just leaves very much to be desired. He is only level 13 so I don't know much about high end zerkers, but I think letting them start with double attack like monks start with dual wield would be a great start.
summoning mobs
# Mar 16 2005 at 9:14 PM Rating: Decent
ok all i play a lvl 67 wizzy, and i love it, yes i tank mobs with a healer of course, i do pretty good at it too, with my auged CHoS, and 41 % haste neck. but come on why does every single mob over lvl 45 have to freeking summon?? no way i can still solo effectivly when i get summoned by a dark blue mob that i know i can root snare nuke and even melee a bit when he turns. i love to solo and love quests, yea i kno wthis game is geared for groups, but gee wiz get real who really wants to sit there killing mobs all day and crawling all over the land or spending time lfg, Not me. i stopped lfg many moons ago i dont even group any more unless i really really really wanna group up. and again with all the summoning mobs i have no choice but to group. FIX THAT sony!!!!, and yes i play a cleric and a druid and a monk and bard. i thikn they are all well suited for what they were intended for. well tahts all for now im sure ill rant more another time.

Jenseiko wizard of White Wind on the drinal
Jensikoe druid of magic and melee united on drinal
Jenipoo cleric of magic and melee uited
Draggonfly monk of magic and melee united
Temmpo bard of magic and melee united
one more thing
# Mar 16 2005 at 9:23 PM Rating: Decent
tahts another thing about wizzys we have such crappy melee skills that if we run outta mana and have to melee a mob we cant we just hit for low dmg and miss 4 outta 5 swings, hell my weak single shot pet does better dmg than i do even with max dex hardly proc, and hit for nothing most of the time. That really needs to be fixxed better. 110 max skill on 1hb is just plain insulting when every other class 20 lvls below you can out melee you. belive me it can help save our lives espically for those mana deprved wizzys. thanks
RE: one more thing
# Mar 17 2005 at 7:29 AM Rating: Default
should make all mobs at a certain level summon (level 55?) the ability to run around in circles and getting 17%(?) AAxp nuking mobs in PoFire is way way way way way out balance. Who needs a group when you can get xp that fast. While others sit hours LFG you can kite red cons. youre a pure caster, one of the best damage classes out there, your price is you require downtimes. Just as every class has its ups, it has its downs, well at least most of them. why is wizards meleeing even on here, if you can nuke 10k's, why would you want to melee. has this message of all classes getting every ability gone that out of hand? you want complete heals and warrior hitpoints too?
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RE: one more thing
# Mar 17 2005 at 5:27 PM Rating: Decent
all im saying about wizzy being able o melee better would be nice, when i solo during my quests its not always needed for a group to hunt a blue con mob. sure i can understand certain mobs summoning, im ok with that but how can a wizzy who is know for quading able to do that when the mobs all summon at that lvl to get me the kills. as posted by another who said "if you can root it you can kill it." yea that makes damn sense. but when your clearing off a ton of greenies or light blues, why would i have to nuke a lvl 30 mob while farming when im 30+ lvls above it? we wizzys are pure casters who do massive dmg with spells. hard to compete to other classes who can solo the under 60 mobs. not asking to beable to melee a mob for 100s of points but we should be able to at least hit way more offten that 4 outa 5 swings. we dont get a usefull pet to help us out and they are really worthless on raids and only good for kiting one mob at a time. i dont mind down time for mana, thats why we have root, duh! but when a mob is under 20 % and your oom, why should i have to sit there waiing for my mana to regen when i can just go melee it? i have over 5k hp self buffed as a wizzy at 67. raid buffed almost 7k hp. i know lvl 70 wizzys who have over 10k hp raid buffed. ami a warrior? no. am i a healer? no. i just nuke andwhen im oom i have to sit there and hope root dont break break and snare dont wear off before i get enough mana to finish the mob. seriously think about it, even other casters, ie: mages enches, Sks all have pets taht can take aggro and the sumoning effect and they get pet heals, our pets are a spell that go poof when the mob is dead. and we cant control it at all. hmm the most intelligent of the classes and we cant even figure a way to make our selves able to solo or even quad mobs at the higher lvls? get real at least give us better offense , since we are the only pure caster who can not heal or have a full time pet. and im not asking for either of those. just better offense and a way not to be summoned on every mob worth hunting. thanks
RE: one more thing
# Mar 17 2005 at 5:16 PM Rating: Decent
all im saying about wizzy being able o melee better would be nice, when i solo during my quests its not always needed for a group to hunt a blue con mob. sure i can understand certain mobs summoning, im ok with that but how can a wizzy who is know for quading able to do that when the mobs all summon at that lvl to get me the kills. as posted by another who said "if you can root it you can kill it." yea that makes damn sense. but when your clearing off a ton of greenies or light blues, why would i have to nuke a lvl 30 mob while farming when im 30+ lvls above it? we wizzys are pure casters who do massive dmg with spells. hard to compete to other classes who can solo the under 60 mobs. not asking to beable to melee a mob for 100s of points but we should be able to at least hit way more offten that 4 outa 5 swings. we dont get a usefull pet to help us out and they are really worthless on raids and only good for kiting one mob at a time. i dont mind down time for mana, thats why we have root, duh! but when a mob is under 20 % and your oom, why should i have to sit there waiing for my mana to regen when i can just go melee it? i have over 5k hp self buffed as a wizzy at 67. raid buffed almost 7k hp. i know lvl 70 wizzys who have over 10k hp raid buffed. ami a warrior? no. am i a healer? no. i just nuke andwhen im oom i have to sit there and hope root dont break break and snare dont wear off before i get enough mana to finish the mob. seriously think about it, even other casters, ie: mages enches, Sks all have pets taht can take aggro and the sumoning effect and they get pet heals, our pets are a spell that go poof when the mob is dead. and we cant control it at all. hmm the most intelligent of the classes and we cant even figure a way to make our selves able to solo or even quad mobs at the higher lvls? get real at least give us better offense , since we are the only pure caster who can not heal or have a full time pet. and im not asking for either of those. just better offense and a way not to be summoned on every mob worth hunting. thanks
PALADIN PART 2
# Mar 16 2005 at 7:45 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
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2,607 posts
Paladins
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We want you to be a main tank in group situations. We believe that you are currently able to fill this role, but want to assure you that our intent is for a group to be able to grab a warrior, paladin, or shadowknight as their main tank and be effective with any of them.

With DoN, you gained a limited form of defensive. We are monitoring your feedback and if you like this direction; we plan to make it a full spell line that begins at the level warriors get the defensive discipline.
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I am happy being a Paladin -- I don't think they should change the Paladin per se -- or any other class -- more so than allow them to be a what they are.

And all classes should be able to solo Dark Blues. If time is limited, no groups are to be found or just because they want to.

Anyway -- here is a suggestion --

Rather than alter classes massively (it may mean relearning your class all together?) -- how about making some of these changes an AA ability/skill that you EARN?

And what about deities? What good are they if they don't do something for you as a loyal servant?


Edited, Mar 12th 2019 2:10pm by GOMN
____________________________

Bards???
# Mar 16 2005 at 6:35 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
We will be increasing your instrument mod cap and using itemization to limit the inherent power gains. This also means that certain songs will have built in maximums to prevent them from scaling indefinitely.

Almost every other class something nice bards?...nope limit power gains...and maximums on their songs it wasn't enough they gotta nerf our PBAE kite now this one stinking paragaph on how they will try to clip our wings again....sheesh.

Edited, Wed Mar 16 18:39:23 2005
Snare for Clerics?
# Mar 16 2005 at 6:10 PM Rating: Good
**
285 posts
Clerics get a snare? That would be great. Now we can fear kite a mob, even if just undead, that would be better than nothing. I was asking for undead slow but snare may work ok instead. Of course both would be better.

Taushar
Sigh
# Mar 16 2005 at 5:49 PM Rating: Decent
I STILL do not see anything regarding the ability to solo in some of the LDoN content. Even though this has been suggested hundreds of times on these and the EQ message boards.
RE: Sigh
# Mar 17 2005 at 10:47 AM Rating: Default
I Totally Agree.

SONY HOW ABOUT SOLO LDON MISSION FOR EXP.

IT COULD BE SET UP TO TAILOR TO EACH CLASS AND ABILITY AND LEVEL.

UNDEAD LDON FOR CLERICS WITH NO MOB THAT RUN AT 10% HP or GROUPED MOBS / ADDS =)

Also I really hate Quests. Sony Stop making EQ 1 into EQ 2. I want 6 peep group interaction and solo action EXP Grinding NOT Runing around for hours looking for stuff and talking to NPCs.

Raids are too big to make me feel like I am making a difference and take too long. ***** Raids!

One group and solo killing action is why I play EQ1 still.
necros
# Mar 16 2005 at 5:42 PM Rating: Decent
I for one am happy to see more screaming terror line spells in game I hope they are more on par with screaming terror and work on all mob types then only undead (I know we are masters of undead) but when I got my ST I quickly learned to break a few camps with relative safety that normally would have 3 or 4 mobs on me if I tried to pull with out ST I used ST in my solo play till I started killing mobs to high for ST to work on even now I still use ST in some zones where it works occasionally I saved a few groups in the past turning weak chanter and mezing down 2 mobs while dots and pet ate a 3rd with rest of group. I hope the new ST lines prove to be useful in a lot of zones unlike the higher ST in game that is now only undead I know there are still high level undead around the game and it will be useful but in a more limited way. I would have liked a pure upgrade to ST instead of what we got.
RE: necros
# Mar 16 2005 at 6:18 PM Rating: Decent
as far as balancing necro's the ST line would be great to expand on but will still not make us sought after for grps chanters/bards will still get mez spot in grps while mage/wiz will normally fill the DPS slots...yes necro's can mind wrack most OOW mobs and that help getting grps sometimes.
imho soe needs to add higher lvl undead zones where the necro can act as slower and mezer and also place our pet heals online with other pet classes ie bst get 1250 heal at 55 necro's get a 1k heal at 64 while the same bst can slow the mobs he's fighting yet necro's can't slow anything really worth fighting 65+

these are just a couple of ideas for balancing the necro also the new DoN lline is great need to expand on that being able to through that 1300ish patch heal with insta cast on MA while the cleric gets off the Ch makes the grp stop and look when all is said and done

katrraisa faerieslayer
67 necromancer
tunare
RE: necros
# Mar 16 2005 at 6:18 PM Rating: Decent
as far as balancing necro's the ST line would be great to expand on but will still not make us sought after for grps chanters/bards will still get mez spot in grps while mage/wiz will normally fill the DPS slots...yes necro's can mind wrack most OOW mobs and that help getting grps sometimes.
imho soe needs to add higher lvl undead zones where the necro can act as slower and mezer and also place our pet heals online with other pet classes ie bst get 1250 heal at 55 necro's get a 1k heal at 64 while the same bst can slow the mobs he's fighting yet necro's can't slow anything really worth fighting 65+

these are just a couple of ideas for balancing the necro also the new DoN lline is great need to expand on that being able to through that 1300ish patch heal with insta cast on MA while the cleric gets off the Ch makes the grp stop and look when all is said and done

katrraisa faerieslayer
67 necromancer
tunare
Clerics
# Mar 16 2005 at 5:28 PM Rating: Default
And speaking of clerics when is sony gonna finally fix our invis situation, at least the belt made it a tiny bit better, but still needs work.
RE: Clerics
# Mar 17 2005 at 10:54 AM Rating: Decent
I agree. Clerics need to get back to camps to res. Why is it needed to have invis fail?? Also, why so many see invis mobs??

I really sucks when our group cannot get to camp cause someone has to die on the way. and others die trying to get their corpse.

A typical EQ day is LFG for 1 hour.........2 peeps in group trying to get more 1 hour............full group trying to get to camp and all res'ed and buffed 1 hour........30 min killing then a slower, healer, Puller, or MT has to log.......
Game play
# Mar 16 2005 at 4:37 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
36 posts
I have played EQ for well over 4 years, play 9 classes and have listened to and read many complaints. Most complaints have been the hot air of ignorance and laziness. Now that there are alternatives to EQ the air is cooler.

Far too many people either advance too fast or inherit an account that leaves them with limited playing skills at higher levels. Teaching lvl. 50 Druids and Necros how to solo is obsurd. I think Sony is doing a good job on its balancing and game improvement overall. That doesn't mean I am happy with everything. Several nerfs were real bad and the valid need to nerf expansions shortly after intro seems to be bad planning.

At the present time I am resonably happy with balance except for Warriors. Oddly my warrior is meant for farming tradeskill components and is only moderately equiped but still demand had gotten him to 50. I admit it is the only class I do not play very well, yet I still notice it is droppping behind as a valued class. Like a few other classes the times it is valued are too far apart to make it worthwhile playing one as a main. Everyone that I know that started one as a main completely quit playing it.

I want Sony to tweak the game but not do what they have done in the past which is make it so easy that lvl. 50's have no real class skills.

{rant on}
I get tired of of talk about how lousy certain classes are, certain spells are and so on. I have made classes to check some of these complaints out and found out virtually all are ignorance from people who haven't learned how to play that class and it's spells and abilities correctly. Its unbelievable how lazy people are. They want the game handed to them. Good thing we don't have "god mode" or 75% would use it. As to the earlier complaint on cleric pac spell, I haven't had the chance to use it yet [good groups] but from experience with other classes I believe them.

BTW I am hoping that EQ will mature as a game for the more serious players who like the depth and that the depth will be increased for us. Diablo players have distorted the game for the rest of us. Everyone pushing me to level up thru xp grinding and never playing more than a few good xp or loot zones. I like the stories, to explore, the people, the community and for some strange reason the quests.
{rant off}

Keep on giving Sony your opinion. Even bad advice pushes them to do better.
RE: Game play
# Mar 16 2005 at 7:19 PM Rating: Decent
FINALLY! Someone with sense.
Game play
# Mar 16 2005 at 4:37 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
36 posts


Edited, Wed Mar 16 16:42:40 2005
ame play
# Mar 16 2005 at 3:53 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
36 posts
CLERICs Need Pal of Vie Revised
# Mar 16 2005 at 3:45 PM Rating: Decent
The difference in Damage from a Shaman's Slow is not made up with a Clerics Heal ability. On top of that Shaman's DPS from Buffs and DoT and Nukes and Piercing is much Better then Clerics.

I BEG Sony to revise the Cleric Pal of Vie Damage mitigation Buff to make it much more useful and make up for this difference.

Instead of 10% for up to 20,800 DMG (2,080 Mitigated) I request 35% for up to 20,800 DMG (7,280 Mitigated)for 450 Mana. (Cheal is 7,500 for 400 mana without AAs and much much better with AAs)

Then it might actually be used and be a NOTICABLE difference that is less effiecent then the almighty cheal but as good as Pious Elixer Heal Over Time maxed out.


Edited, Wed Mar 16 16:01:35 2005
Beastlord
# Mar 16 2005 at 3:31 PM Rating: Decent
I am very happy with my Beastlord and his abilities.

Ideas for improvements would be to have the ability to stop my Warder for doing a knockback or change it to just a short stun. I find that many groups come to hate my poor Warder for going spastic and knocking back the mob too much. This ability is nice for soloing or if you are using the Warder as the main tank, but I've found that even under soloing or tanks situations that it becomes anoying having your Warder consistantly knock the mob up a mountain or into a stream.

A pet problem that would be nice to get a fix for would be the ability to get items back from your pet. How many times have you accidently given an item to your pet when you ment to give it to your partner? (I still hear daily about the time I gave Slugworms to my pet instead of our Enchanter.)

The real spell ability that I have always really missed was a Gate. I think it would be nice if all magic casting classes had a Gate ability. Makes life so much more easier getting back to PoK or back to your camping spot really quick.

Overall I've always been please with my Beastlord. Any additional offensive AA's for my pet are always very appricated too. (It's always very nice to be able to sit back, drink a beer, and let the Warder do all the work. And you don't even need to feed them too!)

-Athlone Tigerswift of Torv
hmmmm
# Mar 16 2005 at 3:13 PM Rating: Decent
I've been playing a druid (main) in EQ for a little over two years. All this *I wanna be able to. . .* clammor from various classes (cleric wannabe tank, shaman wannabe cleric, etc. just to name a few) makes me shake my head. Sony created classes like Shadowknights as half-warrior half-necro types, right? Yet now SKs have turned out to be just as good or better than warriors? So Sony has got to fix that?

I've seen over the two-year period many, many changes - 'additions' - and I think Sony needs to do four things:

1. Quit trying to please every class (or at least saying you are) that want the skills and abilities of other classes. (Ya wanna be a tank? Create a warrior. Etc. For heaven's sake, there's so many players who have several 60-70 level characters on their account, can't they happily switch from one to the other?)

2. Quit trying to make every class a solo class just because the solo classes can go their merry way and accomplish things alone. (Ya wanna be able to solo? Create a druid, but don't ***** about your limited healing abilities. -- ha ha there are many many scenarios where a druid can be main healer --- or create a Bard, but don't ***** about the nerf to your ability to solo 20+ mobs at once. Here's an idea. . . instead of hours LFG - try DUOING with someone. Get yerself a buddy and you'd be amazed at the fun two people can have sorta-kinda 'soloing'. And guess what? The experience is better than a whole group. Duh.)

3. Fix the quests that don't work. Or are unintelligible. Or are meaningless anymore. Get rid of alot of them. Clean up your files. Fix what's broken instead of implementing changes to an already cluttered character skills system. You add and you add and you add and you add. . . then you gotta add more to fix what has become unbalanced.

Maybe a worldwide plague knocking some of us upper 60's to 70's players down a notch would help.

Oh, and give me a true warrior any ol' day in a true group situation. . . them Pally's are great for what they do. . . but them SK's are jus' plain skeery.

Monks
# Mar 16 2005 at 1:55 PM Rating: Decent
I play a 70 monk, the mitigation would be great... but the problem i see is feign death. Yes, we are excellent pullers in the game, but bards can do many things we cannot with pulling in some situations. Feign Death in my opinion is broken, it fails WAY too much for being at it's skill cap. If you wanna help out monks, fix feign death so it won't fail as often, a failed feign death is why monks die so much when pulling. Maybe add an AA that improves fd or something, the perfect fd seems nice (havn't spent points on it yet) but the timer on it is way too long for it to be worth getting.
And to the ranger complaining earlier about monks and berserkers out damaging you, are you using your weapons all the time? a good ranger should be using a bow and shooting at the mob, most rangers i know do alot more damage that way.
RE: Monks
# Mar 16 2005 at 5:38 PM Rating: Default
I believe the OOW AA "Imitate Death" does just that. It says in the description "execute a perfect feign death" but I'm not sure if that only means "a feign death that you can stand up as soon as you execute it with no aggro."
RE: Monks
# Mar 17 2005 at 6:28 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
22 posts
The reuse time on it is way too high though, bards can do this exact same thing over and over and over till they are out of mana. And not only can they do this over and over till they are out of mana, they can also run at lightning speed, pacify more then 1 mob snare the mob they want to pull or mez a mob next to the one they wanna pull, etc. Bards have way too many tools for pulling while monks just have FD and experience. Imitate Death reuse time is entirely too long to be really useful though it is useful, but not even close to as useful as Fading Memories.
RE: Monks
# Mar 17 2005 at 1:14 PM Rating: Decent
Fading memories is a wonderful thing . . . that takes 900 mana.

Keep in mind, bardic mana is not affected by kei, beasty crack, Pot9, necro twitch, mod rod, bardsong, or any other affect. Bard's meditate maxxes out at 1.

The only mana regen effect bards can use is items with Mana Regen on them. 900 mana is a very heavy cost when you have no way to get mana back.

As someone who's played a bard, I'm usually asked to stay back and sing mana/health for the group rather than pull. Monks are the ultimate pullers.

Bards are a utility member of a group that can fill in most roles in a pinch, but not as well as the class primarily thought of as that role.

Sure, I can play CC-provided you don't want me doing anything else if we get adds. I have no AoE mezz, and I can't be attacking when I'm mezzing.

I can play puller, but can't be doing mana regen for my group while I'm off.

I can pick locks-poorly. Almost all doors that can be picked require a skill that is higher than bard pick-locks can go. Therefore, a rogue is required.

DPS? Well, not so much. Bardic DPS is in making the rest of my group faster.

As for the bardic "balancing," I think it's rather silly.
They're upping the instrument modifier limit, but at the same time putting caps on what the songs can do. This turns out to be ridiculous, as only a very high level bard can get the instrument modifiers that are 30+. Therefore, the only bards this will affect are the 65+ bards in raiding guilds, who will promptly hit the "built in maximum."

My only real request: Give clerics invis, or make Gnomish Vanishing Devices invis that won't drop randomly.
RE:
# Mar 17 2005 at 1:00 PM Rating: Decent
Bards may be able to pull very well-for a few mobs. Fading memories is great and wonderful-and takes 900 mana.
Bard mana is unaffected by any spell, song, or effect except Mana regen items (kei, necro twitch, mod rod, bardsong, beasty crack, PoT9 . . . none of them affect bard mana at all). Bard meditate is maxxed at 1. There is NO fast way for a bard to get mana back. Monks can always FD. It may not work every single time, but a bard playing CC is probably going to die once. Once the bard dies, you can write off them being able to pull with Fading Memories for a while. Even with mana regen 15, it's still a long haul to 900 mana per pull.
Rangers
# Mar 16 2005 at 1:50 PM Rating: Decent
As a ranger, I have often found that my role in a group setting is to be a "peeler" - someone who off-tanks adds or who sits back with the casters firing arrows until a mob decides to attack the casters. In that case we have spells and stuff to gain aggro but then no way to stand up to the mobs when they hit so hard. Once I have the aggro I find that I must often times sacrifice myself as my tanking abilities are seriously wanting. Being a 70th level well made ranger I have issues with the fact that often times I get my butt handed to me by a light blue con. Maybe this is about the parts not adding up that was described in the message from SOE. To off-tank one needs some ability at being a tank. Weapon shield is great when things go bad but is only useful for that occasion when things go wrong. I would suggest a discipline that has a shorter reuse time and is less effective than weapon shield that would allow me the ability to at least mitigate or avoid the damage dealt at the cost of my damage output. Maybe it is more a toggle where I can determine what I am to be doing for a given time so that it can't be exploited (in other words "ok, I'm tanking until the mob turns and then I'm all dps.")

And while I'm posting I have a personal peeve about the spell graphics for the Frostwind line of spells. I am ashamed that I'm blinding my group members due to the spell effect for a measly 963(???) points of damage. Everyone is "WOAH what was that?" and I have to apologize for the lameness and the seizures the blinding light has caused my group.
#REDACTED, Posted: Mar 16 2005 at 5:12 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) All I have to say is if you want to tank, stop crying and make a warrior, SK or Pally. You are a ranger, sit back and accept your place as backup damage, and if your group tells you to tank kindly explain to them why you can't, or talk to one of the ranting rangers that believes they can tank well, either they're lying, or they have something to teach tiy,
class re-envisioning
# Mar 16 2005 at 1:31 PM Rating: Decent
Hello all I play a SK and love it. The only thing I would like to see is a sellable buff. Most casting/hybrid classes have something they can sit in POK and make some plat selling. This has been a great way to visit other players as well as generate some plat for quests and such. Just a thought.
Rangers are Obsolete
# Mar 16 2005 at 1:08 PM Rating: Decent
Rangers are in 'Heavy Demand'?? Ya RIGHT!! Do the Dev ppl even play Rangers? I'm not talking their BetaBuffed or GM equiped, but 'actually' played character?

Anyone who has a Ranger for a main and has never been in a powerful Guild (Time Flagged and equal) will understand where I am coming from. Unless you are in an all powerful guild, and been with them for a very long time, then Rangers just don't have the equipment to equal the dps of some other classes.

Lets compare other classes, shall we?
Beastlords: the warder of thiers is equal to a 'moderately' equiped Ranger in DPS. Thier spells are much more benificail than Rangers. The HP buffs of thiers are nearly equal to that of shamans (when done in the proper combination). They Haste, slow, ect (they can easily take the place of chanters or shamans when they are not available, even doing Crowd Control with the warder if needed).
Mages: Similar in that of beastlords cept the buffs. But the nukes they pack quickly make up for this, adding even more DPS.
Necros: Same as mages cept they pack nicer dots than nukes. Plus they can pump mana for the healers/nukers to keep they flow of mobs coming.
Wizards: no one can equal them in instant DPS. Some of the crit blasts I've seen just make me sick.
Rogues: two words 'Triple Backstab'. I've seen them getting crits equal to that of many wizards. Makes Ranger TS crits (about 2k) seem wimpy. Plus us Rangers can only use TS once every hour and 12 minutes. Whats the reuse timer on TB? Alot lower than an hour. Or is there a reuse time? not sure.
Bards: Very good support class for any group. Added haste, mezzing when needed, pulling ability is better than Rangers, ect. The songs they sing may be limited in duration, but then they stack with everything out there. They don't have the DPS Rangers have.... surprise surprise. Add in their extra haste and that might be different.
Monks and Berserkers: I don't really know alot about them. Can't say I have played or grouped with them enough to know thier skills. I have seen both classes out DPS me on more than 1 occation though.
Tank classes: I've seen them out DPS rangers, even though rangers by all rights should be able to show them how it's really done.

OK, I think thats enough on that subject.

How to make Rangers better? Thats the question isn't it?
1) Try giving us better line of spells. We get a group 'Shrew' spell, how about SoW and SoE?
2) We get an Agi buff at lvl 15, how about upgrading that like shamans get? Beastlords get upgraded stat buffs, all except Agi, another surprise.
3) How about more of a HP bonus to our SoT line? Make it more useful, like that of the Pally BSS line. Or let it stack with it. With the extra buff slots available now, Would it be a bad thing?
4) What does the Pred line do for everyone? Adds attack rating. Not only us, but our group also. Giving the other classes even more DPS. How about allowing us stackable self buffs to increase our personal attack rating? Or just increase our DPS.
5) Bow DPS? Why bother? With the 1handed weapons out there its worthless. Consider the 2handed weapons out there. Some 2handed weapons out there have Double there damage over delay. I have yet to see any Bows come close to these. The only time I ever really use my bow is in a Raid so I'm not mixed in with everyone else. Sony gives us alot of melee increases with AA's, even though all other melee classes get pretty much the same things, so therefore still keeps them higher on the DPS list. Try giving Rangers some added Bow AA's. Rangers are the Masters of Bow DPS after all.

Well, thats all for this RANT. Sorry it is so long. Once I get started, it's sometimes hard for me to stop.
RE: Rangers are Obsolete
# Mar 16 2005 at 5:45 PM Rating: Decent
Often times, the problem lies not in the class itself, but in the way the character was played. I've seen high end Rangers suck royal in DPS when compared to the tank, and I firmly believe that this is due to the player having the character power leveled to the upper fiftys as fast as they can.

While this means that they can enter the planes and group with other high end players, it also means that the skills one aquires trudging through the low levels are sorely lacking.

My main is a Ranger, I've been playing him for about 1 1/2 years and he's only level 53 and rather poorly equipped by today's standards. Why is this character so lacking in the level and gear department? Because I've soloed this Ranger to 50, and yes, it can be done. Though it was a long, furstrating, and repetitive road, the end result is well worth it. All melee, magical, and misc skils (with the exclusion of tradeskills) are maxed for my level. I constanly have to keep hitting my Jolt hotkey because I pull aggro off the tank more time than I care to count while assisting. Plus let's not forget the Ranger's tracking ability. Even if melee skills blow, Rangers are the only class in the game that can track by distance, and that is really in high demand for groups hunting specific types of mobs.

One thing that I'll be most happy to see according to SoE's announcement up above is the improved healing abilities mentioned for Rangers. Because let me tell you, soloing to 50 with a **** poor healing spell equates to a LOT of tedious downtime.
RE: Rangers are Obsolete
# Mar 16 2005 at 3:46 PM Rating: Default
my level 68 ranger with no raid gear outdamages my character.

not intended to you, but only way a paladin outdamages a ranger is if the ranger REALLY really sucks (i mention really sucks?). An SK might outdamage you with a harmtouch. No way a 2hander outdamages dual wielding or bow damage.
____________________________
Lamini http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=113217
Lamini's comeback: http://eq.magelo.com/profile/1399072
RE: Rangers are Obsolete
# Mar 16 2005 at 5:46 PM Rating: Default
I disagree with most of what you just said, but I just wanted to comment on one thing.

"try giving us SOW and SOE"

I don't want to flame, and believe me I'm resisting the urge, but rangers do get SOW and SOE. SOW at 30 and SOE at... 60 I believe? (Too lazy to look it up)

Honestly, please play a ranger for more than 10 levels before making these assumptions.
RE: Rangers are Obsolete
# Mar 16 2005 at 6:04 PM Rating: Decent
Hate to burst your bubble, but I do believe you've read that wrong. The guy said:

Quote:
We get a group 'Shrew' spell, how about SoW and SoE?


Meaning that a group SoW and a group SoE would prove benifical.
RE: Rangers are Obsolete
# Mar 16 2005 at 6:31 PM Rating: Default
Indubitably, syntax error on my part there.

Regardless, I think a group SOW/SOE spell just isn't a ranger's job. Rangers shouldn't be worrying about casting SOW on everybody. I just don't find it to be that big of an issue. Rarely does my druid even cast SOE on anybody, most people prefer their runspeed # anyways.
Class Balancing
# Mar 16 2005 at 1:05 PM Rating: Decent
SOLO: Unless you are a truly Uber Paladin -- you simply can't realistically solo. Casters can take yellows and even reds solo -- over and over and over.

A Paladin has a very hard time taking a Dark Blue -- and if he wins -- it is time to med, heal and LoH is probably gone now.

All classes get some beneficial ability or spell(s) that greatly aide them in solo efforts --> feign death, snare, AoE, succor, charm, mez, track, pets and so forth.

Paladins get NONE of those abilities - despite being part caster.

Even though half-cleric, they dont get a pet, gate, AoE, bind or similar that Clerics get.

They don't get Snare, DPS or FD that their evil counterpart gets (SK's).

They don't get ANY of the Discs a WAR does -- even though they are supposed to be half warrior.

They dont even get a DoT spell, much less a slow spell (stuns are resisted more often than not and certainly don't last as long as they claim they can).

What may help Paladins here are:

A root that actually holds for more than 5 seconds.

A 10-second stun will actually last 10 seconds and are harder to resist.

Decent self only heals so they dont have to go off target to heal themselves.

AoE and/or DD spells as good or better than that of a Cleric (Paladins are supposed to be the Undead killers -- yet Clerics get the better undead spells).

And how about procs that are worth the trouble? Level 70 and my Pious Fury hits for less that 200 HP. Thats not even an itch to MOB's at Level 70 plus.

DISCS: If a Pally is half WAR -- it only makes sense they should get half the WAR discs -- even if at much higher levels.

The new DoN disc really, really sux. It only last 30 secs -- and takes 25% of the damage up to 6K HP.

Think about that. For it to take the max amount of damage in 30 seconds -- a MOB would have to hit me for 24K -- with 6K (25%) being absorbed by the Disc.

In order to survive such an attack -- I would need 24,001 HP -- barring some serious non-stop healling. I don't know ANYONE with 24K HP.

This needs to be 50% or better absorbtion -- and maybe last longer too.
_________________________________________________ok lol, i agree with Gomn 100%...it's sad to see how little paladins can solo. I consider my pally to not be that bad among others, he doesn't have a lot of raid equipment, but most of his stuff has 100+ hps and has over 10k buffed, and 400 AAs, def maxed, most healing done, lots of stuff...but sadly i cannot solo a dark blue con if my life depended on it, which well, it does =P And if i did manage to pull it off i've used Hand of Piety, LoH, 80% of my mana, and had to root, back off, and med a lil to finish the fight...that's with over 9k self buffed and almost 6k mana, and ft14. Yeah i've seen uber 1200 AA pallys with 15k hps and 2700ac solo in PG, but i've also seen bards do it melee... Yet i barely make it as a tank there in a full group...

My stuns get resisted 50% of the time, and my heals do half as much as the mobs put out in one round...and i'm not even griping about my heals =P But my stuns suck, my root isn't worth crap anymore like it was in PoP, it wears off instantly...that is if it ever lands.

Worst of all is that you'd think a def disc would save the pally class from being a crap tank to the 90% of omens mobs that u kill at 70 that are immune to my stuns...(just got Celestial Stun a few days ago, and it's ok, but doesn't save my life =/) But instead, this disc is a lot worse than what it should be...why give a tank something that's only gonna last 30 seconds every 15mins, when i need it for every fight... And half of the time, it doesn't even last 30 seconds on a named because of the damage limit...

oh...one more point, why the hell can't we paci anymore? that was the most fun i'd ever had, being able to pull because i was good at it, now, it's just hope that root lasts long enough for slow to land on the other 2 that came with it...Now i can't paci any mobs that give exp worth killing for, and i generally just wipe my groups when they want me to pull, and i'm a good puller =P I see someone else posting here about how they only pick SKs and Warriors for pulling tanks because pally's can't FD off aggro when they over pull, and pallys can't mitigate the damage on an over pull like warriors can...basically if u have 3 inc and a pally to tank, your group is dead without a damn good mezzer...If i sound distraught, then I am heh.

My first character was not a pally, but i changed my main to pally cuz they could stun, and cuz they could paci, but in anything worth doing at high end, neither of those come into play...Ever try playing a pally in Riftseekers? It's just chain cast spells that have absolutely no effect except to try and hold aggro, which means i'm just pressing keys to use mana, hell, gimme a nuke or somethin so i have to actually think about what i'm doing other than when i get low cast a heal on myself and change back to chain casting non-working spells =/

Even worse, if you are taking away the aggro generated on spells that have no effect, how the hell am i gonna keep aggro and still have mana? the only way i can do that now is to keep up my lvl 9 stun, if that isn't gonna get me aggro, then i might as well quit playing now...Not much point in casting a lvl 66+ stun that is just gonna run me out of mana and have the same effect as my lvl 9 stun...i go to riftseekers and mem cease, desist, and force of akilae...cuz they are fastest casting, and have same aggro generation since stun aggro was nerfed long ago...

Basically i just gotta pester the mob into attacking me instead of the enchanter =P And taunt..there is something wrong with mine cuz generally the only person it grabs aggro from is a WARRIOR when i accidently hit that instead of bash...Pally taunt sucks, but i don't care really =/ But i think that our AA stun should be raised to 75 at least, and our regular stuns raised to 73...i can't stun any mob in Riftseekers except for the white con Sig droppin Dragorn...

So if i can't stun, what makes pallys such a good tank? Sony always claimed that Pallys can't have good mitigation cuz they can stun, but umm, we can't stun...in a riftseekers group, if u don't have uber equipment, then u are either a warrior or a SK, cuz SK has same mitigation as a pally, cept their spells work in that kind of situation...Lifetaps...They don't have a cap of 70, and that's what makes them a useful tank, let alone the fact that they can do massive damage in a fight, between their pet, their nukes, dots, snare...and they can pull!

bleh...warrior can tank these cuz their mitigation doesn't have a cap for only working on lvl 70 mobs, it works on any possible mob in the game, as does their taunt >< not to mention, they also blow away pally dps like SKs do, so what do pallys have? u say heals, yeah, we can cast 10 heals and be oom, but they have 5 second reuses and don't heal for as much as the mob hits for, and that's the best fast heal a pally gets...and if we are healing, we aren't getting aggro =P and then u say we get stuns, i got one stun that works in the one zone that exp is worth the deaths and it's an AA!!! An AA that cost me 32 some AAs to get, and it doesn't even last the whole second that it's supposed to, it interupts spells and that's it, and that's only if the damn thing doesn't get resisted...

hmm, what else...undead =P Why do SKs...Necros...Clerics... all have better undead nukes...and for cheaper mana cost, and without the 30 second reuse, or however long it is...pretty long, can use twice a fight if i cast on incoming, but then if i cast that i generally lose aggro on the mob cuz i'm not casting my lvl 9 stun instead =P Our undead proc is nice, but overall we just lose dps by using it cuz almost nowhere u can go anymore is seclusively undead mobs, especially anywhere with good exp...and why does slay go off 3 times in one fight for like 1.5k, then not work for an hour, then do a 5k, then not work for 2 hours?

And how come they said they fixed Holyforge, but about a week ago i used it cuz we had 8 mobs mezzed, which means i can get the most of it...but i used it and didn't even land one critical hit in the entire 5minutes it was active...not one crit, no crippling, no slays, not even a single regular crit...gee, it was fixed good, like my pitbull was =P

*sigh* Everyone tells me how crappy their classes are at everything...i have played most classes high end, and pally is my favorite, but just because of name anymore =/

Edited, Wed Mar 16 13:39:11 2005
Warriors what are they good for now
# Mar 16 2005 at 12:51 PM Rating: Decent
So Pally's and SK's can now take over for my warrior. And i thought i could not get a group before. So not only did a warrior get nothing from this "Class Balanceing" but now i am going to be replaced with a pally that can stunn and pull better agro as well as have as much def and HP as me. Guess i need to play my shaman more.
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