Yes folks, this is the official statement from VI.

It is also an embarrasment to the company in which it is attributed to. Never have I seen a VI calaber company act in such an unprofessional way as to take our guildchat COMPLETLY out of context, and at the same time have it filled with OUTRIGHT UNDENIABLE LIES.

Lets take a look, shall we...

basically the 28 Conquest players were (among other things) purposely using world geometry, aspects of the hate list, the "z" coordinate and its nullification of NPC's ability to summon, and multiple atmospheres (e.g. water/land) to arrange dragon-type encounters so they could attack without getting hit back for the vast majority of the time that it took to kill the monster.

This is just an outright lie, period. EASILY proveable with the testimony of hundreds of everquest players who have killed the warders, and many other everquest mobs. YOU CANNOT EVER nullify the npcs summon ability - it is simply impossible. Hell, even VI employee's who play the high level game can vouch for that.

And to top it all off, we never even came CLOSE to killing the monster. The mob was down to 65% at most when we lost (yes we LOST the fight badly - VI decided it was wise to spawn kerafyrm anyways to kill the last few of us off - thus triggering their entire script)

In addition, SOE staff observed various members of the guild discussing the cheating -- these comments include:

...


These lines are totally taken out of context. They were NEVER in reference to the exploit you are describing (which isnt even possible to execute - you can even ask various co-workers like narris, kendrick, etc - you know, the guys who have a CLUE how the game works). These guildchat lines are in reference to useing rez effects to prevent the slow spell from stacking. The SAME tactic EVERY guild who killed yelinak used (casting clarity to overwrite yelinaks AE), the SAME tactic every guild who fought aaryanar used (lots of spells overwrote his AE), and the SAME tactic every guild who killed the 3rd warder used (useing snare so its AE wouldnt take hold). The statements were made IN JEST, because useing this border-line exploit is about as illegal as jaywalking. Verant watches people use these tactics EVERY DAY and doesnt even care - not to mention this isnt what we have been charged with doing.

Give me 8 hours of guildchat of ANY high end guild, and ill cut and paste you a reason to disband them.

As far as the guild being disbanded, the rules state:

Disciplinary issues involving guilds will also be addressed on a broader basis. Guilds whose members habitually violate any of the Rules of Conduct . . . may be disbanded.

How is ONE INCIDENT habitually violating the rules of conduct?

The last paragraph is particularly embarrasing to your company...

(i) Conquest did not complete the encounter – SOE staff inadvertently spawned the Sleeper during its efforts to stop the cheating

SOE staff spawned the sleeper due to their superiority complex... They could have very easily killed the CQ members with death touch. Spawning a lvl 99 mob that quads 1950 and death touches, that is KOS to anything and everything (even the npcs in teh zone) AND that sets off serverwide scripts is SURELY not the handbook procedure for killing off a dozen people who are allready LOSING BADLY to the mob you claim they are exploiting.

ii) the “human figures” in some screenshots are a result of the screenshot taker not patching

How can you feel comfortable spreading such blatent lies? Perhaps you should view this screenshot which shows both the human kerafyrm model AND the sleeper model in the same shot.

http://eqconquest.inet.net.nz/sleepers/sleeper01.jpg

DOH, didnt think we had one of those i bet.

(iii) the zone is complete and working -- once SOE has patched fixes to these exploits we encourage players to wake the Sleeper.

Not really. The script is worse shape then ever before.

Patched fixes to the exploits eh? All you've patched is upgrading the 3rd warders AE to make it COMPLETLY impossible, so noone will EVER complete your unfinished zone.

New 3rd warder AE (get this)

7500 dot over 1.5 mins
15 second stun
12 second reset
Whirl till you hurl (makes the player spin)

Needless to say, 3rd warder will never die in this form.

BTW you screwed up veeshans peak by changing the 3rd warder's ae - Nexona shares that spell. May want to patch that.

-Tiak

This story has this newbie scared that I'm exploiting all the time and unaware of it! It seems like they are saying that if there are game designs that I utilize to protect me from certain death than I am actually "exploiting a bug". Does this mean that if I run to the zone when a MOB is in pursuit (thereby "exploiting" the game design that prevents MOBs from crossing zones) that I am actually doing something wrong?! I don't think it is good role playing to not try to save your hide when you are under attack by whatever means available!

Verant never ever repeats to the public what was being done that got someone suspended, because they cannot watch everyone all the time and others will use the same bug/exploit. Therefore, disregard any reasons Verant lists as to why Conquest got into trouble. What Verant is not saying is this:

1. When you get ressed, your hit point total goes to 1500 "whether it was higher or lower".
2. Rez boxes stay up for several minutes, if you don't access your spellbook, etc.
3. Rezzing someone does not make you agro like healing does.
4. A corpse can be ressed multiple times, although only the first one restores experience.
5. The 4th warder has an AE slow that also does a relatively small amount of damage.
6. Tanks, other than the main-trying-to-stay-agro one, drop corpses. Cleric with FA resses them, but they do not click on the box. Tanks fight, get AE damage, click box when a heal is needed. Cleric re-resses, rinse and repeat.
7. Using the FA res as an instant, no-agro, anytime heal is an EXPLOIT.
8. End of discussion.

I'm going to be called a mouthpeice for this, but her I am writing a second post. A few other posters have said they read all the info, or have been following the story, ... blah blah blah!

Here's a question for you, if you've read all the info, what do SOE's logs say about what happened? How long were the GM's there watching without being seen? Are you a member of either SOE or Conquest?

You HAVEN'T seen all the info. You HAVE seen Conquests very one sided (and I understand why) version of the events as they occurred. You may have read the short statement SOE put out to address the issue. But you have not read/seen ALL the info.

It's bad business to publicly talk about things of this nature. SOE gave their statement, and that's it. But being in business they'd have to be colassal idiots to do something like this without cause. And the reasons proposed are not good causes. You really think SONY, you know the company that has more money than God, is going to take bad PR unless they have legitimate and just cause? People, this is a business and you don't make arbitrary decisions in business. Especially if you want to be sucessful. And I think SOE want's to be successful.

That being said, if Conquest was knowingly exploiting bugs in the system, do you think they're going to admit it? I think they were, and you can read my other post to find out why, but they'd be stupid to admit it. They want SOE to look the villian, that's a standard defense tactic.

Unless SOE were to release their logs of the incident, which they won't and nor should they, we'll never know the whole story. But being as Sony wouldn't take the PR hit without reason, I'm inclined to side with them.

PS NO I don't work for SOE.

We are all motivated to try and overcome the challenge of killing the mobs, to prevail through skill and teamwork. Verant seems to take the position that we should be motivated to admit defeat before it occurs, to assume we will be unsuccessful at our goals and thus report any "exploit" if we suddenly discover any success!

For example:
At level 4 I remember jumping into the Freeport water around the pally guild to kill piranha's. They were mean and had sharp teeth, and I almost died. So I jumped out onto land. They didn't follow but stayed in the water, like good fish, glaring at me. I rested and healed, then jumped back in to try again. Was this an exploit? Should my level 4 character have been banned? Suspended? Should I have reported some mysterious bug that allowed me to finally kill a piranha?

Yet at level 60, in a large guild, in the highest end zone available I may get Verant's response of "...basically the 28 Conquest players were (among other things) purposely using world geometry, aspects of the hate list, the "z" coordinate and its nullification of NPC's ability to summon, and multiple atmospheres (e.g. water/land) to arrange dragon-type encounters so they could attack without getting hit back for the vast majority of the time that it took to kill the monster."

Please note the comment about multiple atmospheres, as that addresses my easy level 4 example. Was it wrong for my level 4 char to unwittingly take advantage of a bug in coding that prevented the piranha from attacking me past the water/air layer? Was it even possible that I determined that it was coded like this, a natural and legitimate tactic to use? Couldn't I have concluded that this was just one of the many tactics Verant wanted a player to learn, to improve his battle skills with?

It seems to me that possibly the players in Sleepers were utilizing tactics similar in nature (but obviously not so simple) that they had learned. Tactics that had not been punished when killing Yelinak, etc... so quite possibly had been concluded as legitimate and proper.

Sure, some exploits are obvious cheats, but for the others... at what point is the player supposed to realize that a bug is occuring and must be not exploited but reported? Are we supposed to just assume "well, really we shouldn't ever have any chance at killing this mob... must be an exploit that is allowing us, so let's stop"? Face it, if you are killing a high end mob and that mob DOESNT summon you, you are going to thank your lucky stars and not instead rush to the conclusion that you must be standing in a "magical geometry" spot.

I read the message boards on this, at two different sites. I have to admit Verant's form letter does little to address and assure me, a normal non-uber player, that I will not be discriminated against in the future.

If you find a novel way to accomplish your task you are either (a) innovative, creative, and skilled at playing the EQ game OR (b) exploiting a design flaw to give you "unintended benefits" [from VI's statement defining exploits]. If you find yourself in category (b) you may or may not know it until a GM/guide informs you, usually in the form of a Warning. Unfortunately for you, if you didn't know it was an "unintended benefit" you already have a warning issued against you and the next "unintended benefit" can find you suspended or banned.

"You have now been warned not to use the water/air interface as an exploit in preventing the mobs from hitting you" followed a few levels later by "You have exploited the Deep Water Goblin's inability to hit you with arrows by rooting him and standing behind a tree. You are now permanently banned from playing EQ."

...SOE is committed to protecting the health and viability of the game and of the EverQuest community..

What Viability? The game is a massive multiplayer hack and slash game.. They were hacking and slashing, there was a lot of them, and they were having fun.. How does this hurt the "Viability" of the game?

It really does sound like VI is whining about the fact that people are able to Beat the unbeatable. I Say Tough S^%T Verant, Live with it.. Players will Always be smarter than programmers, it's the nature of the beast.
But instead of rewarding them, you punish them and accuse them of Cheating.

The whole statement with this Coordinate bug, notice that it is Only a BUG when used by the players, when it's the NPC's getting to take advantage of this "bug" it is No Longer called a bug, rather it is called "Design"

IF VI doesn't approve of the Coordinate bug, they should fix it, not ban people for using it.

Even if you posted a bug they still do not do **** to fix it unless it is in the players advantage. I was in south karana the other night in the birdhouse in the penthouse when all of a sudden i was knock out of my med.. and killed by three mobs that i could not see or hit or even cast a spell on. Needless to say it happened twice in which VI CS told me no bug is listed in this area and that they will do nothing for me even though i was clear up at the top of the treehouse and the MOBS attacking were clear down on the ground. So i typed /bug and sent it in then i got Banned for 7 days for making a false /bug and that they had no proof of it.. So here i sit all **** Off at VI for kicking me off of EQ the only game i have wasted money on for two long years and the only game i thought worthy of staying power go to ****.. I hope VI get the message that they need to check all their rules and regluations and adjust them too suit..


BOBman of reno,Nv NOW A PROUD MEMBER OF Ultima Online

Yes he summoned just fine. Check http://pub49.ezboard.com/bconquesteq

I find it hard to believe that a monster of that level doesn't summon. If the clerics were high enough on it's aggro list they would immediately been summoned and killed. If Verant somehow forgot to install this feature on this particular monster, then shame on them.