Progression Server Officially Announced

SONY ONLINE ENTERTAINMENT ANNOUNCES EVERQUEST PROGRESSION SERVER "The Combine" Progression Server will allow all players to start on a level playing field as they explore the online world of EverQuest as it was in the beginning WHAT: Sony Online Entertainment is giving EverQuest players both new and old a chance to experience the largest persistent world as it was in the very beginning by launching "The Combine" Progression server. The Progression server will consist of the EverQuest zones in Antonica, Faydwer and Odus that were available at launch back in 1999. Players will work together to level and conquer key content that will in turn progressively unlock every expansion released for EverQuest since 1999 up through Prophecy of Ro. Players must have the EverQuest base game to begin the progression and must have purchased the software for each expansion pack they are trying to unlock. SERVER FEATURES: "The Combine" Progression server will feature the following: * A normal, non-PvP server (no transfer server) titled "The Combine" in-game * Each expansion will be unlocked by the progress of the players and the content they complete * A new server for past players to return to and re-experience a world where talented and skilled players reign supreme * New players will be able to experience all of EverQuest's content and start on a level playing field with veteran players * Relive the evolution of one of the most successful MMORPGs in history WHEN: "The Combine" Progression server is scheduled to launch in June 2006 WHERE: Log onto: www.everquest.com for more information.

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New Server
# May 08 2006 at 1:54 PM Rating: Excellent
I seriously hope they dont take the advice posted here by Gynsu and make certain zones PVP or 'Player Killers' as I call those people. No way no how do people need to experience that. Especially if the intent here is to attract new customers.

I just dont understand people who think that fun is: backstabbing and killing someone or some group who are busy or distracted fighting a mob so that they get killed and then you can claim the loot and the mob kill. Do you ppl honestly think that those other people think its fun? How do you promote new ppl to this environment?
Is your motto: "Great, I killed you and stole from you so now you got to kill and steal from others?"
An economy grows from production. If everyone just kills and steals, then nothing is ever produced and everyone just dies.

Please just stay on your disrespectful server and away from the rest us in the the cooperative world where you can kill yourselves to your own misery.

Edited, Mon May 8 14:37:21 2006
RE: New Server
# May 20 2006 at 11:06 AM Rating: Decent
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62 posts
Aahh!! PKs PKs EVERYWHERE!! Good old UO lolol. PKing is one of the main reasons I left UO back in 2000 and came to EQ. That and the craptastic overhead view they carried over from the original Ultima series. UO's PvP system wasn't really a system - it was global. They didn't have a server (they called em shards) that outlawed PKing. There wasn't any "/decline" command. It was a fact of the game. If you got jumped and didn't fight back, you would die, though often if you did fight back you'd still probably die. It was very "Old West" lol. If you left the sight of the guards in town, you were vulnerable. That fact alone made the game way too stressfull to be fun for me, and I can't tell you how many times I got jumped and murdered while, say, mining ore or something equally as benign. Nonetheless, robbery and murder were respectable professions in UO, and you knew exactly who was capable of doing it well. Another popular ahole tactic was to pickpocket something valuable off a player (yes, you could pickpocket players), usually right in front of the bank, and then ransom it back to them (Oh by the way...is this yours?).

On the server I played, the highest-murder-count clan was appropriately called Clan 409 with over 3k murders at the time I left the game. I made their victim page too lol...only a little 100x100 clip tho. The mentality of the clan members was evident in their toon names: The Columbian, TripleH, Johnny Bravo, and others just as lowbrow. Still though, if you saw that 409 tag, you knew exactly what was about to happen.

The people who think PKing is fun are the same people who aren't skilled enough to maintain a positive kill ratio in CounterStrike/Quake/UT/(insert shooter here), so they come to EQ to feel good about themselves. I can guarantee a PKer will always back down from a straight up fight, preferring instead to sneak up and backstab and rob you.

Enough rambling - I agree with you wholeheartedly. PvP needs to stay in its little box with all the tiny little people who revel in it.
Kunark being wasted
# May 08 2006 at 8:14 AM Rating: Decent
OMG, what happened that after all these years Sony is finally listening ? This server is a great idea. But ... having to kill an uber mob to unlock Kunark ???? Most of Kunark is quite low level. Most of the zones will be useless by the time you can participate in killing Negafen or whatever? Seems a waste of a lot of Kunark content to me.
Might be fun
# May 07 2006 at 2:20 PM Rating: Decent
47 posts
But I been there 7 years ago and done that. I'm not looking forward to leveling up another char. I, for one, do not miss the never ending fighting between guilds over who got to what mob first, who had a raid "scheduled" etc. For folks that didn't get a chance to do that stuff, I think it's great Sony is going back to the beginning, however I'm happy that they have tons of new content available.
PVP
# May 07 2006 at 1:56 PM Rating: Default
If you truly wanna add some spice to the progression server make a couple zones pvp enabled, so those us who live and die the pvp way can enjoy it also. It doesnt have to be all zones just a couple zones- ones that arent key to advancement in the game etc. You could easily make this happen and then people who have played blue for years can try out pvp without fear.
RE: PVP
# May 11 2006 at 1:56 AM Rating: Decent
If you want that, turn in your note to the priest of dischord...then those of you who live and die the pvp way can do so in EVERY zone.

RE: PVP
# May 11 2006 at 1:56 AM Rating: Decent
If you want that, turn in your note to the priest of dischord...then those of you who live and die the pvp way can do so in EVERY zone.

Old EQ
# May 07 2006 at 11:05 AM Rating: Decent
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I was thinking about this today. This new server seems like something that will be interesting.


I started playing back in April of 2001. So I was a little bit late in the game, but hey, I have been playing ever since.

Thnk about it.....no Bazaar means meeting friends in EC tunnel (remember T1!), a few Class/Race wont be available. Stein of Maggok will be a quest that people do, porting becomes profitable again, and much more.

Its not going to be very easy at first, building up plat and gear the old fashioned way will be challenging. I remember wondering how people had 300 plat.

Oh, and one more thing.

Obviously coming to Allakhazam's will be interesting because you will see new and different pricing for items on the Progression Server, but all the quests are pretty much laid out here, and that is something thats different that it was way back when EQ first started.

Have fun to any who try the new server. I probably will.


Woot!
# May 07 2006 at 2:16 AM Rating: Decent
Camp lists in LGuk again! Looking forward to it though.
Ideas in case anyone is listening
# May 06 2006 at 11:06 PM Rating: Default
A few ideas regarding the new server in case someone thats actually designing it might read this. If this is done right then maybe all the good people that have left the game might come back.
First only launch the original 3 continents (thats Odus, Antonica, and Fadywer as I'm sure most of you don't know) the way they were in the beginning. Return the revamped zones like Splitpaw and even the changes made in zones like Greater Faydark back to the way it was in the beginning. Scrap and then burn any copies of the "better" Nektulos, Lavastorm, and Freeport area revamps. By the way since you didn't learn from George Lucas' mistake when he remade a certain 3 movies "better" let me remind you that trying to fix something that isn't broken just pi$$es people off so STOP IT. Get rid of the ingame maps. Once upon a time it was actually fun to travel and explore, not just casting invis and watching an arrow on a map. Remove the Plane of Knowledge and burn any copies of it that you might have. Remove the tutorial and burn any copies of it that you might have. Remove the Luclin character models (if you want proof that graphics don't make an RPG then take a quick look at WoW and then try and figure out why it's blowing EQ right out of the water with its laughable graphics). Bring back the boats. <I can remember when alert> I can remember when the boats served several important purposes. I used to practice my magic while I waited, you'd never see me have a fizzle fit in a group thanks to the boats, sometimes I fished or sewed, and half of my friends that I met early on I met while waiting for the boats or while riding the boats. Most importantly when they removed the boats we sure found out who the biggest cry babies were and as for all of you go to WoW with the rest of the babies we don't need you ruining the game for the rest of us. I realize I'm being a bit harsh with this but as it is now the game almost promotes stupidity. If I see one more person standing in the PoK asking what their home city is called or begging for money I'm going to go crazy (unless I already have in which case I'm gonna go MORE crazy). Put the spells back to the way they were. Replace the experience and corpse loss of characters below level 10, once again we don't need to be pampered and those of us that do can go to WoW. That about covers most of what needs to be removed and never replaced (if I think of anything else I'll be back). Now as for unlocking the other expansions there are only 3 others that really had anything decent to offer and even they had their share of problems. First you can enable Kunark but not until every single major boss has been taken down and even then the server should be monitered so that we can unlock Kunark when like 75% of the server population really has nothing more to gain or learn from the original game and this should take a few years so we'll have at least that long to enjoy ourselves before it begins to corrupt. Then launch Kunark and follow the same guidelines and I forgot to mention but remove the revamps (like the hole and veeshans peak). The problem with launching these expansions is the same problem we're having in the real EQ and that is that everyone is already really strong from the expansion before so it really doesn't take long to conquer the new expansions. But anyway you'll have to launch Velius then to keep things moving and when its conquered the last expansion left is LDoN even though it didn't really fit in with the story it still added alot of good gameplay to the game and hopefully by then we'll have kept things challenging and fun for several years because the only real course of action left is to keep going reintroducing the same problems the real game has as we go or call it off and start over again. You'll notice I left out Luclin even though it generally isn't considered to be a bad expansion and the reason for that is because the bazaar caused more problems than it solved (namely massive twinking)and beastlords were a joke right from the start and should never be brought back (because they are too strong or because they are too weak, whichever you would like to believe) and finally I've always loved the story of the Shissar on Kunark and how they were wiped out until of course you put a bunch of them on Luclin and rewrote the story to support this.. Finally the very few innovations that were mostly introduced by SOE that weren't a disaster. First the spell descriptions should be left in honestly I can't remember how we managed it before those. The issues with the pets, namely the pet window (which helps alot but I can live without if I'm outvoted), the ability to invis and zone without losing your pet was a godsend but once again I can live without it if I'm outvoted, and finally the set level of your summoned pet (having to summon your pet 12 times until you get the strongest one sucked really really bad). And I forgot to mention the part about how your pet used to get aggro from the guards ( I honestly can't remember why I've stuck with my mage all these years after all that). The newer group commands (if you've been around for awhile you know what I'm talking about) should be left alone too in my opinion. As for the UI the newest one is a joke if you ask me and the original one was just as bad (sorta like looking through a porthole) so really the one we were all using until just a few months ago was really the best in my opinion. Thats all I can remember for now about that. Besides the above rant this next part is the real problem I want fixed on the new server. There are 2 aspects of the real game that are likely going to pass over to the new server even though we don't want them and I really have no idea how we can keep them out. They are of course the arrogance and prejudice towards the lower level players by the guilds and the insane amount of two boxing (and three and four and five and six and seven and eight and nine yes I've seen NINE boxing) which really just destroys the game for those of us that can't or won't two box. Anyway we need some suggestions on how to keep those out or we may as well scrap the new server idea. Okay that about covers it.
RE: Ideas in case anyone is listening
# May 08 2006 at 2:25 PM Rating: Decent
Use the [ENTER] key once in a while!
RE: Ideas in case anyone is listening
# May 07 2006 at 6:10 PM Rating: Good
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276 posts
[rant]
honestly, if you really dont like the changes, dont play. the server will be nice yes, but if you dont like the fact it progresses, and you are looking for something like EQ was at the start that wont change, design your own game! You and other people like you complain about this and expect sony to RUIN their game. If they did that they would lose more players than they would get back. Its bad business to ruin a game that sells as good as EQ does right now.

I would like to reiterate my point about making your own game if you dont like how EQ is. They offer the progression server for people who want EQ like it is, and they still find a way to complain! Im sure i'll get plenty of people flaming me, and plenty of others who agree with me. I for one will probably play there, but it wont be anything new as i started 6 months before Luclin came out, so I know what no bazaar was like.

Yes there are certain changes they made i want removed, but think logically about it. It makes things easier for lower lvl players and newer players which they are trying to attract to the game. They most likely will not remove spells every lvl's, maybe on the progression server, but not on the regular ones. But even that would require alot of coding changes, possibly a second patcher dedicated to it! They are simply locking all the zones, they're all there, just in-accessable, so they dont need to make any major coding changes. That's all i have to say in response to your rant.
[/rant]
RE: Ideas in case anyone is listening
# Sep 12 2006 at 6:19 PM Rating: Decent
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276 posts
Quote:
If you don't like what people are saying, then don't read it


and how will I know that I will not like what they have posted, when I have not read it /boggle.. perhaps you should think before you make comments?
RE: Ideas in case anyone is listening
# May 13 2006 at 8:51 AM Rating: Default
Quote:
honestly, if you really dont like the changes, dont play


If you don't like what people are saying, then don't read it. Circular conflict avoidance argument, meaningless, deal with it...

Liveye (lvl 70 Wizard)
RE: Ideas in case anyone is listening
# May 07 2006 at 12:17 AM Rating: Decent
16 posts
Seradwyn, you wrote:
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Remove the Plane of Knowledge and burn any copies of it that you might have


Amen!

I stopped playing EQ about the time OoW came out. I was in a very powerful guild (which eventually eroded to nothingness toward the end) and the people who 2--9-boxed were highly valued. Even more so in Mid-tier guilds. So you wrote:

Quote:
[Navy]There are 2 aspects of the real game that are likely going to pass over to the new server even though we don't want them and I really have no idea how we can keep them out. They are of course the arrogance and prejudice towards the lower level players by the guilds and the insane amount of two boxing (and three and four and five and six and seven and eight and nine yes I've seen NINE boxing) which really just destroys the game for those of us that can't or won't two box.


{Olive]I guess that would be for the casual regular run-of-the-mill player since they never hindered me. Sure I was a bit jealous of their combined power and I often thought it was unfair. But mostly it was admired. The only situation I strongly object is (not sure if it still goes on) that one player, 4-6 toons camping a spot. If you're camping Bargynn in a deserted zone; no problem, but with the new server coming out, it could potentially be unpleasant for the average player if theyre camping let's say-The Froglok King. We'll just have to see since technically the "improvements" made to the game only made things easier for these guys and supposedly it would be hard to manage again. I for one am interested in this new venture...but only tentatively.[/Olive]
cool
# May 06 2006 at 8:41 PM Rating: Default
sounds fun.


About the bost issue. the reason they havent been fixed is SOE doesnt know how. and instead of outsourcing it they just said forget it..... if you do a search you will see quite a few non affiliated people with sony have fixed them............ Just a matter of time before SOE realizes this and asks one of them to assist.
Hmmmmmm...
# May 06 2006 at 8:19 PM Rating: Good
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254 posts
I played Everquest from about two months after its original release until Velious, first on Bertoxx and later on Cazic Thule when the server split for the first time... A long time has passed since then but I was never tempted to come back because of all the changes made to the game that didn't sound appealing to me. I play FFXI currently but reading this has really made me think.

I miss the old Everquest community. Not to sound elitist, but generally old-school EQ players were generally more kind, helpful, and... literate, haha. More mature. Like everyone else I like to improve my character but at its core MMORPGs are about experiences, the adventures, the friendships, the journeys. The old Everquest was tough as hell, but there was a true sense of accomplishment in everything you did.

I wonder if this would bring that old feeling back.
Trepidation, but some hope
# May 06 2006 at 6:16 PM Rating: Decent
I am very dubious, as anything that can be done well, generally CANNOT be done at SOE. I will say, if the boats work on this server, I would be forced to return, just for a trip on the boats. I will never forget falling asleep at the Computer on the boats, nor falling off and getting my first maxxed skill. Swimming, of course!
Weeeee!
# May 06 2006 at 5:43 PM Rating: Decent
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130 posts
I can hardly wait to be honest! My only words of advice to the 'noobs' (post-PoP players): if you play a caster, level up to get your bind and gate (possibly sow) first...THEN venture out...it'll make your life much simpler! /wink
Very cool, very interesting
# May 06 2006 at 3:35 PM Rating: Decent
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75 posts
It makes me wonder. People who were only recently inducted into the addiction are going to have the chance to experience the great joy...
...of porting cross-continent and then forgetting to bind. Hee hee XD

I wonder if the boats will be brought back? Granted, they were buggy, but that's part of the adventure :D -- trying to make your way through danger and overcoming unexpected crap (dont fall in!)

I can't see anything wrong with this idea. I don't know that i'd go myself yet (at least not as a new "main" server), but definitely would have to try.
abosutely awsome
# May 06 2006 at 2:46 PM Rating: Decent
I think this is gonna be a great server becasue now the new players can experience the real fun in the game now and really experience having to work for the armor instead of scamming money off of people and going to buy all the **** you need. AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF THE NEW SERVER THEN LISTEN CAREFULLY TO MY INSTRUCTIONS..... DO..... NOT.... GO...... TO..... THE......SERVER...... its just that easy. all u simply do is click a DIFFERENT server and click the PLAY EVERQUEST button. stop your ******* whinning about it already...
No scammers?
# May 11 2006 at 8:33 AM Rating: Default
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364 posts
You think they're going to have some code in place to keep scammers away from this server? I am sure they, the scammers, will be out in force. Have fun there I can be nostalgic and remember my friends and good times right where I am. I doubt if they will even have the halloween events from 2001.
Nerfed items
# May 06 2006 at 2:39 PM Rating: Decent
What im really wondering is if they gunna bring back the items that nolonger drop like Manastone,Earthshaker, and Circlet of Shadow
great idea, but..
# May 06 2006 at 10:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Only problem I see is your power players (IE people who eat sleep and play eq1 and nothing else) are goign to fly through the content and within a year have this server just like any other eq1 server. Especially with summer coming up the kids will be out of school. I think they should make it where you can't unlock the next expansion except for every 2 months or so.

I imagine unlocking it will probably involve killing key mobs (IE to unlock kunark killing the 2 dragons cazic thule and inny).

Unlocking Kunark I say will take awhile since players will have to grind the old fashion way to lvl 50. After that it does take a little time to grind to 60 which probably will be required to unlock velious. However I think once players hit 60 the power players will start knocking expansions down really fast. A uber guild with high end Kunark gear can knock named down in Velious pretty quick. After velious geared I imagine it won't take much for luclin either. Now POP might hold them up abit with the flagging quest, but still uber guilds can fly through that as well. LOY ehh doubt it will take long to go through.

Perhaps I am getting ahead of myself. Maybe SOE will require more then simply 1 guild killing key mobs. MAybe 5 guilds will have to do it, or X players will have to do it etc etc. I guess I shouldn't pass judgement till more details are out. But I really do hope it isn't something that hardcore players will fly through.
____________________________
Hi
New Server
# May 06 2006 at 10:27 AM Rating: Decent
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I look forward to the new server! Everyone will be experienced and will remember the old quests. But originally we had to discover and work out what to do!Who is going to be kitted out in full banded armor first?
Great Idea
# May 06 2006 at 10:14 AM Rating: Decent
Personally I think this is a great idea. Give everyone the option of going back to the beginning and not have to worry about the things that annoy them in the current game. And those that complain about this idea...guess what...DON'T GO...simple as that. Have fun everyone that goes over as I won't be making the trip. Looking forward to seeing some posts on the progression on that server :-)
#REDACTED, Posted: May 06 2006 at 8:54 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) why would any one pay more money to get a new game,on a new server ,and pay for the exspansions you allready have , when you progress thu the game .
RE: your kiding
# May 06 2006 at 9:58 AM Rating: Decent
Yet another person who didnt read and understand before posting. Stop your ******** and whinning!! Nothing was remotely said about having to
Quote:
pay more money to get a new game,on a new server ,and pay for the exspansions you allready have , when you progress thu the game .
Quote:
slick gimmick tho , to get you to buy all 11 exspansions agian, but me ,if i wanna go to kunark , i'll use a portal
All they are doing is starting a new server, you have the option to play on it just like you can play on any other server at no extra charge.
Quote:
Players must have the EverQuest base game to begin the progression
Meaning you must have Everquest, containing the orginal set, not meaning you have to go buy a new game kit.
Quote:
and must have purchased the software for each expansion pack they are trying to unlock.
Meaning for every expansion you intend on being able to access once you have progressed far enough. Your whinning just shows how much of a noob you are. Frankly many of us oldschoolers, like myself, have been waiting for them to do something like this, but hey you like the game as is, then stay on the regular servers and dont complain about stuff you have no clue about.

Edited, Sat May 6 12:01:13 2006
Eh
# May 05 2006 at 10:37 PM Rating: Decent
39 posts
Personally My Excitements in the people i play with not the power of my char me and 4 close RL friends all play togeather and well constently already go and hit all the oldworld zones at the apropriot lvl
we get a thrill outta playing the game with each other rather then worring about loot and gear and many times well go untwinked course some times over the top twinkage /grin but we laugh and reminec of days of old...

And of course how much we miss the old spell graphics the fact of you could tell a persons lvl range by watching them cast and me personally felt so cheated when they got the new skelly models2 days before i woulda got my drybones skelly...

So Everquest in its current is what you make of it you can run and hurry and get all the new powerful stuff or take your time and enjoy time with friends
yippie
# May 05 2006 at 10:21 PM Rating: Decent
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90 posts
WOOT so many of us been waiting for the chance. ive played 6 years or so and you can bet your *** i will be going back.

Quote:
this is cool but why? so you can what?? go back and see the old zones. i mean the odl players wont be back. theres no exitment when luclin comes out. i think there is no real purpose. i amy make a char and play it for 1 hour. forgot it about it for 8 months. the past si past and the present is now. we shoudl all think this time now is the past 4 years from now. dont look back but forward


your happily insane =)
I think it's great
# May 05 2006 at 10:20 PM Rating: Decent
I, for one, think this is an awesome idea! I can't wait to start over again and do everything I've been wanting to do such as the Vulak ring and Veeshan's Peak that people just don't do anymore. I find myself more and more only gearing up in PoR and the other latest expansions just to be able to go through old content. After I solo'd cazic thule yesterday, I realized how much fun that WASN'T...it wasn't anything like the old days when running into kithicor forest actually made me scared. This server is for those people that go "I wish I were 10 years younger with what I know now". Well guess what -- you get a chance to start all over again after learning the deepest secrets of the game that we had only begun to unravel back then.

I can't wait to box old content also...I find much more fun in boxing than I do playing a single normal character, but we didn't have the ability to do that in the old days.

The biggest reward for this server in my opinion will to (hopefully) relive the old school plane of mischief. I looooved the old plane of mischief (and also plane of hate) and i pray the revamped versions of both never get put on this server.
RE: I think it's great
# May 06 2006 at 10:46 AM Rating: Decent
Agreed. I wish they would have at least left the Kunark expansion unlocked, since it was the first expansion and contained a great amount of beginning and leveling zones. Personally I feel Iksars are the best race in the game, but that is just my opinion. I am hoping to see the boats return, as I loved the boats. Guess we will all have to wait and see, but I definitely plan on being there.

Edited, Sat May 6 10:45:06 2006
this is pretty cool but..
# May 05 2006 at 9:58 PM Rating: Default
this is cool but why? so you can what?? go back and see the old zones. i mean the odl players wont be back. theres no exitment when luclin comes out. i think there is no real purpose. i amy make a char and play it for 1 hour. forgot it about it for 8 months. the past si past and the present is now. we shoudl all think this time now is the past 4 years from now. dont look back but forward
Learn to type
# May 06 2006 at 10:15 AM Rating: Decent
Ok your spelling is atroscious,
Quote:
i mean the odl players wont be back
I think you mean old, and I forsee many old schoolers doing this, as this is what alot of us have been waiting for. Yet more poor spelling along with bad grammar this time.
Quote:
i amy make a char and play it for 1 hour. forgot it about it for 8 months. the past si past and the present is now. we shoudl all think
Well if amy is your name, then I amy would be correct. However, i believe you were trying to say I may. Then, forgot it about it, should be either forget it for 8months or forget about it for 8 months. Lastly the past si past, should read the past is the past. But the whole reason I responded to this message is the last part of my second quote.
Quote:
we shoudl all think
Yes I agree, WE SHOULD ALL THINK, before we decide to post anything here. Now if I have mispelled anything or used inproper grammar, then oh well I am just as human as our dear Toughrodger here, but at least I did not choose to state an opinion as fact.

Edited, Sat May 6 10:20:16 2006
RE: Learn to type
# May 06 2006 at 11:15 AM Rating: Decent
28 posts
Quote:
Ok your spelling is atroscious


mate gonna flame someone for spelling at least make sure you spell thing right in YOUR message!

A T R O C I O U S

:)
RE: Learn to type
# May 06 2006 at 4:07 PM Rating: Good
lol... i have to keep this running... ANOTHER typo in ANOTHER flame about spelling errors! you need an "s" on the end of "thing."

thtsa alll i huve to sae aboot thatt.
Excitement
# May 05 2006 at 9:13 PM Rating: Decent
I generally don't get excited over these types of things... but lately I've been trying to play un-twinked, non-tutorial, very basic characters... and since I've never been able to force myself to, it'll be nice to see what happens when the game forces me to.
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