I don't mean 1337 in the normal sense that is appropriated with it today, the arrogant attitudes and all that jazz. I simply mean, why did we used to (if people don't anymore since I've been gone so long) perceive a JP party as being amazing compared to English speaking parties?
Now, my party last night was for all intents and purposes a success. I leveled once, and XP was flowing in nicely. Everyone was doing their job excellently. I retain this assumption even after factoring in the full party wipe we had, due to a bad pop, no fault of anyone's and on another occasion a link due to a bad pop as puller returned with a mob. On both instances no fault of anyone's.
So, why do we assume that the JP party is good, while many English parties are bad.
I realized it last night and it's simple. It may not be the only contributing factor, nor may it be a factor for all people but for me it is.
In JP parties, we don't speak to them. We don't shoot the **** or converse on any level other than auto-translate. This does two things. One of them does a possibly good thing when you're in a JP party and the other does a possibly bad thing when in an English party.
1). Auto-translate is filled with polite phrases so you are respectful of each other while in a JP party. You may even come to respect them due to the politeness that is in abundance. Respect may lead to admiration, or even if some don't develop admiration they most definitely develop friendly feelings caused by the respect they feel and that they see in return.
2) By speaking casually with English people we see the utter stupidity that is abundant in our world. If people have differing views or someone is just obviously stupid and should be sent to live on an island with other stupid people. This all causes negative feelings, the very fact that we can determine someone's intelligence and competencies through speaking with them.
That's that. Balls in DB's mouth...twice!
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That's definitely a huge part I agree. It's easy to put someone on a pedestal when they are always so polite (even if it's because of the auto-translate hehehe) And oh so easy to look down on someone who just got done sharing his/her asshat-ness with you in lurid detail.
But back in the day, people looked up to JP players because they had been playing at least a year longer than us. They knew all the tricks of the trade long before NA folks even got to play. With the amount of time that's gone by now of course we're all at a pretty even keel. But for some(usually those folks that have been playing since the game came out) there's still that residual feeling that any JP party must be better because FFXI came out a year early in Japan.
But back in the day, people looked up to JP players because they had been playing at least a year longer than us. They knew all the tricks of the trade long before NA folks even got to play. With the amount of time that's gone by now of course we're all at a pretty even keel. But for some(usually those folks that have been playing since the game came out) there's still that residual feeling that any JP party must be better because FFXI came out a year early in Japan.
Hello, 2004.
I used to think this way when I was a noob. I used to get excited about being in an all jp pt. I think the reason why it was almost always good, was because they had a better knowledge of the game and had less "immature" people behind the controllers.
I do not think this anymore. Any party can be good. In fact, I would rather that the party be english speaking now for communication purposes. I used to think that jp people put "JP ONRY" in their search comment because they were racist. Now, however, I believe it is because of communication.
Besides, who knows if they are making fun of you with all of the "w"s. O.o
I used to think this way when I was a noob. I used to get excited about being in an all jp pt. I think the reason why it was almost always good, was because they had a better knowledge of the game and had less "immature" people behind the controllers.
I do not think this anymore. Any party can be good. In fact, I would rather that the party be english speaking now for communication purposes. I used to think that jp people put "JP ONRY" in their search comment because they were racist. Now, however, I believe it is because of communication.
Besides, who knows if they are making fun of you with all of the "w"s. O.o
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Yea, but it's always fun to say something in autotranslate and go w after it. It's usually followed by a ton of w's from them... ;)
Very true.
What we don't understand, we have to 'assume'. We have to project the feelings and vibe of Japanese players with almost no feedback at all if we don't speak Japanese, since we don't have a body language cue either.
It's hard enough to communicate effectively with English speakers on the Web. Doing it though mostly useless stock phrases ("Full attack!") is pretty useless for sussing out what a Japanese player is 'like', or where the interpersonal relationship is.
Because we can only interact with Japanese players in a tactical sense -- we don't have the language for anything else -- they gain a sort of machinelike air of efficiency.
We see them as killing things far faster (although this was due mostly to the early Japanese penchant for chaining EM-T rather than subscribing to the NA 'IT++ onry' philosophy), and being much better at everything. They seemed almost godlike in the early days, because it seemed as though no one but Japanese players had a job above 60.
All in all you're right, and it's really vital to sort out in your head what you 'know' and what you just 'think': not only about what Japanese players are like but everything else as well.
What we don't understand, we have to 'assume'. We have to project the feelings and vibe of Japanese players with almost no feedback at all if we don't speak Japanese, since we don't have a body language cue either.
It's hard enough to communicate effectively with English speakers on the Web. Doing it though mostly useless stock phrases ("Full attack!") is pretty useless for sussing out what a Japanese player is 'like', or where the interpersonal relationship is.
Because we can only interact with Japanese players in a tactical sense -- we don't have the language for anything else -- they gain a sort of machinelike air of efficiency.
We see them as killing things far faster (although this was due mostly to the early Japanese penchant for chaining EM-T rather than subscribing to the NA 'IT++ onry' philosophy), and being much better at everything. They seemed almost godlike in the early days, because it seemed as though no one but Japanese players had a job above 60.
All in all you're right, and it's really vital to sort out in your head what you 'know' and what you just 'think': not only about what Japanese players are like but everything else as well.
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That is an excellent observation. I always thought the game would be nicer if we could only communicate with auto translate. Of course, there are the creative bunch that enjoy chaining them together to get interesting phrases. I only wonder what those translate to in Japanese. I bet they think we are half insane.
I guess another factor to consider is the culture. They are very disciplined. And of course, this translates into the game. I always notice that they are very consistent in what they do, and strive to be as committed as possible.
I do not notice the divide as much anymore. Probably because I do not do a lot of partying at 2:00am anymore. Anyway, nice discussion. ^^
I guess another factor to consider is the culture. They are very disciplined. And of course, this translates into the game. I always notice that they are very consistent in what they do, and strive to be as committed as possible.
I do not notice the divide as much anymore. Probably because I do not do a lot of partying at 2:00am anymore. Anyway, nice discussion. ^^
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Yea, but it's always fun to say something in autotranslate and go w after it. It's usually followed by a ton of w's from them... ;)
umm Gam..they are laughing at you, not with you..lol
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Sage
1,500 posts
Take this an opinion from a person that have been living in USA and JAPAN but isn't Japanese or either NA, I'm Mexican.
This game was designed for the market of Japanese Gamers, and was heavy oriented to match with Japaneses community standards, as some have stated they are very disciplined and respectful but more than that, they Culture teach them to work as a team.
In the other hand the western culture seams more individualist from my point of view, you all know "try hard and good things will happen to you" and sentences like those, always oriented to person itself and the oneself improvement.
Japanese ppl have a moto, "At individual level are weak and fragile, as a team we are unbeatable", take it with a grain of salt since I'm translating it from Japanese and my skill there is even lower than it's is with English.
But if you think about it, FFXI characters are like that, weak alone but strong in groups, they are generally better, or maybe I should say average JP player is better than average NA player basically because the game was designed for their culture.
Just my opinion about the matter, please ignore it if it doesn't fit on you.
This game was designed for the market of Japanese Gamers, and was heavy oriented to match with Japaneses community standards, as some have stated they are very disciplined and respectful but more than that, they Culture teach them to work as a team.
In the other hand the western culture seams more individualist from my point of view, you all know "try hard and good things will happen to you" and sentences like those, always oriented to person itself and the oneself improvement.
Japanese ppl have a moto, "At individual level are weak and fragile, as a team we are unbeatable", take it with a grain of salt since I'm translating it from Japanese and my skill there is even lower than it's is with English.
But if you think about it, FFXI characters are like that, weak alone but strong in groups, they are generally better, or maybe I should say average JP player is better than average NA player basically because the game was designed for their culture.
Just my opinion about the matter, please ignore it if it doesn't fit on you.
I was thinking about FFXI today regarding is need for teamwork and how other MMO's don't require the same level of teamwork. I've always chalked this up to the way FFXI was made and never pegged it as being due to the way Japanese culture is.
Interesting theory. Fits in all the right places...like a girlfriends jean shorts.
Interesting theory. Fits in all the right places...like a girlfriends jean shorts.
Oh, and DB, I never said they weren't. Still funny though.
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