Tonight I was in Gustav with a xp party going after gobbies and crabs; 58 Blm me, 58 Whm Marriage, 58 Rdm Oriana, 59 Ninja Ferra, 58 War Tayuya, 59 Rng Tanshin. There was a monk to begin the party with us, but forgive me I cant remember his name.
When we got to the camp the Rng said he forgot his bullets, I was thinking he needed a warp back to jeuno or whatever, but he said he had a few stacks of holy bolts on him that can last for a while. Xp was going pretty well, we got chain 5 regularly and everything was going smooth until the monk d/c about a hour into it. 5 minutes go by and Tanshin (rng) asks to be warped to his hp to grab some bullets. We say that should be ok and he makes his way to jeuno. 5 more minutes goes by and we decide to look for a replacement for the monk. Tanshin is the party leader so he's looking for a replacement. Eventually about 20 minutes later we finally get a response from Tayuya (war) and they both make their way to the camp.
When they get back to the camp we get back to xping as usual for about 20 minutes, until Tanshin switches to archery and uses Piercing arrow instead of slug or sidewinder. I didnt think that much of it at first, I thought he would switch back weapons and he was goofing off, another 10 minutes goes by and he's still using piercing arrow. I ask him "Tan, what lvl is your archery?", and after getting no response I asked "can you switch back to slug shot"? in which he replies "I want to use this stack of arrows first". Now I wouldnt really care much if he used arrows to xp with, heck i have a 58 rng and I got away with throwing out some arrows in xp, but if he's using piercing, that means he doesnt have sidewinder, and thats rng lvl 56.
ugh... here is the chat log for as much as i could scroll up at the time, you make the call, was i being an ***-hat or was the rng just trying to be gimpy.
Me) its like a lvl 54 was leveling with us, I dont mind using arrows, but not for skill up.
Tanshin) ok, i hear your concern but i'm still going to finish this stack
Me) all im going to say is, its crappy to change weaponskills without telling anyone, and to skill up in a xp party, just get through your stack.
Tanshin) maybe,
Me) I have no problem warping home if things are being slowed down by skilling up.
Ferra) Don't be a prima donna, melees have needs too.
Me) lol most of my jobs are melee
Tanshin) besides i have like 40 arrows left, then we can move on with our lives somehow.
Ferra) and most of mine are mage jobs, and i've never thrown the fit that you have.
Oriana) I agree with Kyo
Me) For one, we havent hit a chain 5 since he changed weapons
Ferra) I thougt you were done talking
Tanshin) we can keep arguiong (his spelling, not mine) until my stack is done; but either way, its going to be done.
Me) lol i dont need a gimpy rng to tell me "how things are done"
Oriana) they make partys for <skill> uping...we even sat around and waited for you to go and get bullets you aren't using
Me) dont pull after this
Ferra) And I don't need an elitist ruining my game day.
Tanshin) no, I'm saying the stack is going to be done
Me) dont pull<call> we need to resolve this
Tanshin) like, over with
Me) dont pull<call> we need to resolve this
**Tanshin pulls**
Kyotokombat starts casting Warp on Kyotokombat.
Now, after I warped Ferra, Oriana and even Marriage (through broken english lol) said they thought the rng was being a jerk about it. Ferra said she didnt know what was going on, you know, tanking and such ^^;;.
What do you guys think?
Im getting tired of partying with jobs that refuse to use abilities or buy scrolls that the job needs to lvl up with. Like utsusemi onry ninjas and people skilling up weapons in parties. I dont mind skilling up a weapon in a party, just as long as you get simular results with the weapon you switch to. I just dont know how he couldnt see that switching to a 4-5+ job level gap wasnt going to gimp xp. Btw we never got more than chain 3 after he did that.
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Ferra) And I don't need an elitist ruining my game day.
Quote:
Tanshin) besides i have like 40 arrows left, then we can move on with our lives somehow.
I wouldnt call you an ***-hat , but you were wrong. 40 arrows is really quick to spend, why couldnt you just endure that ? As i can see, you were the only one in the pt to found it annoying. Do you think you are better than him enough to tell him what to do ? He just wanted to finish his stack which could be done in like 15mins if you wouldnt have stopped to pt because you are a whinning elitist. Stop putting yourself over others. You are not special and no one has to do as you tell them. Just 15mins and the rng would have come back to bullets.... now that i think about it... i may call you an ***-hat
Honestly, I don't think of you as an asshat. I've been a ranger, level 66, and I've played with rangers of all kinds.
IMO, there are all types of DD and most of them you have certain basic expectations, for example, at that level a ranger's skill of archery and marksmanship should be equally capped at least 2-3k exp into their level. The expectations parties have of rangers is some one to pull, and if they know what they're doing after the nerf, to cause absolute serious damage, especially during WS time. A good ranger brings wonderful results to any exp party.
I feel the ranger was wrong to not be skilled in archery, and also, if he is under leveled by that much, he probably is missing more than he makes contact, so he is wasting arrows. He may have been better of just simply dropping those 40 arrows and move on with bullets at the rate he was gimping your chains.
Now saying this, if I were in your party (and trust me I have had similar experiences) I would be just as confounded as you. Although, I probably wouldn't say a word about it in the party. If there are serious issues or if someone isn't doing their job properly, I normally /tell that person in order to save drama from the party and undue embarrassment for everyone.
IMO, there are all types of DD and most of them you have certain basic expectations, for example, at that level a ranger's skill of archery and marksmanship should be equally capped at least 2-3k exp into their level. The expectations parties have of rangers is some one to pull, and if they know what they're doing after the nerf, to cause absolute serious damage, especially during WS time. A good ranger brings wonderful results to any exp party.
I feel the ranger was wrong to not be skilled in archery, and also, if he is under leveled by that much, he probably is missing more than he makes contact, so he is wasting arrows. He may have been better of just simply dropping those 40 arrows and move on with bullets at the rate he was gimping your chains.
Now saying this, if I were in your party (and trust me I have had similar experiences) I would be just as confounded as you. Although, I probably wouldn't say a word about it in the party. If there are serious issues or if someone isn't doing their job properly, I normally /tell that person in order to save drama from the party and undue embarrassment for everyone.
Was he using arrows before hand? Or did he just happen to have a unfinished stack of arrows laying around?
I dont think 40 arrows of not SO great damage would have made him gimp-like. BUt I rarely pay attention to rngs.
Who's at fault? I dunno.
I dont think 40 arrows of not SO great damage would have made him gimp-like. BUt I rarely pay attention to rngs.
Who's at fault? I dunno.
IMO...lol...i love that. Not dogging anyome i really like to write it. I have partied several times with Kyo. with different jobs at different lvls. Kyo is someone i enjoy playing with. no drama...ever. straight up players player who likes an efficiant party. the rng should have dumped the stack and brought out his fricken gun that he went to buy bullets for. Skill up parties are just that. this was exp and the rng was wrong. first for not being prepared and 2nd even arguing about it.
In my opinion, XP parties are for XP, Not Skilling up. I can understand if you just lvled and want to cap a Weapon (IE hitting 55 and using Archery getting Sidewinder then switching to Marksmanship for Slugshot), but being over 3 lvls below in skill is really gimp.
Scholar
26 posts
This is basically the battle between two differing view points.
Elitists v. Noobs
Is the rng right in being below level in using his arrows. Probably not. He could have used a skill-up party to remedy this problem. Especially since party members asked him to switch.
However the OP had no right to throw a hissy fit and warp himself out in the middle of a fight. Just because people don't play the optimum way that you in your obvious perfection always play at all times of the day, does not mean you can abandon them.
Your elitist attitude drives more people away from the game for not living up to your high standards of getting chain 23 everytime you party and averaging 20,000 exp an hour than any slightly gimped rng. If anything disrupts your perfect world then you go home crying.
In summary, I think the only one in the level head in this discussion was Ferra. Like I said the RNG was wrong for not using his bolts, but the OP had no right to become a prima donna.
Elitists v. Noobs
Is the rng right in being below level in using his arrows. Probably not. He could have used a skill-up party to remedy this problem. Especially since party members asked him to switch.
However the OP had no right to throw a hissy fit and warp himself out in the middle of a fight. Just because people don't play the optimum way that you in your obvious perfection always play at all times of the day, does not mean you can abandon them.
Your elitist attitude drives more people away from the game for not living up to your high standards of getting chain 23 everytime you party and averaging 20,000 exp an hour than any slightly gimped rng. If anything disrupts your perfect world then you go home crying.
In summary, I think the only one in the level head in this discussion was Ferra. Like I said the RNG was wrong for not using his bolts, but the OP had no right to become a prima donna.
DariusColdstone wrote:
This is basically the battle between two differing view points.
Elitists v. Noobs
Is the rng right in being below level in using his arrows. Probably not. He could have used a skill-up party to remedy this problem. Especially since party members asked him to switch.
However the OP had no right to throw a hissy fit and warp himself out in the middle of a fight. Just because people don't play the optimum way that you in your obvious perfection always play at all times of the day, does not mean you can abandon them.
Your elitist attitude drives more people away from the game for not living up to your high standards of getting chain 23 everytime you party and averaging 20,000 exp an hour than any slightly gimped rng. If anything disrupts your perfect world then you go home crying.
In summary, I think the only one in the level head in this discussion was Ferra. Like I said the RNG was wrong for not using his bolts, but the OP had no right to become a prima donna.
Elitists v. Noobs
Is the rng right in being below level in using his arrows. Probably not. He could have used a skill-up party to remedy this problem. Especially since party members asked him to switch.
However the OP had no right to throw a hissy fit and warp himself out in the middle of a fight. Just because people don't play the optimum way that you in your obvious perfection always play at all times of the day, does not mean you can abandon them.
Your elitist attitude drives more people away from the game for not living up to your high standards of getting chain 23 everytime you party and averaging 20,000 exp an hour than any slightly gimped rng. If anything disrupts your perfect world then you go home crying.
In summary, I think the only one in the level head in this discussion was Ferra. Like I said the RNG was wrong for not using his bolts, but the OP had no right to become a prima donna.
Agreed. The Ranger could have been a little bit more considerate, but I think Kyoto's response to the matter threw things off the edge.
Oh well, I tried to resolve the matter in the xp party, but where they wouldnt stop the xp and settle the matter i gave up. Btw the text happened within a period of 5 min, while we were fighting. I dont consider myself an elitist, but the only reason why I got annoyed with it is that we warped the ranger to go get bullets, waited at least 15 minutes longer than we would have than if we just looked for a replacement, just so he could skill up arrows?? Im sorry I dont care if it makes me look like an ***-hat, but I think thats wrong.
I didnt even see him use a gun the whole time we were xping, its like he went from holy bolts (which i dont mind) to scorpion arrows (i dont mind either). If we went from xbow to bow then why did we bother to wait for him to get bullets? Imho I dont think he ever intended to use bullets (which i yet again dont mind) but if he didnt intend to, then why bother telling the party that you intended to use a gun.
After i threw a fit and warped i messaged Oriana and apologised, which she said she agreed with me, Ferra messaged me and i explained what happened and she apologised for not listening and just siding with her friend, the rng.
I dont care if a rng uses bullets, bolts, or bullets, my whole point is, if you should xp, then bring your best weapon/armor/food etc, I dont mind people skilling up at all, but if the skill is way tooooo low for the mobs then thats where i pipe up. If you want to use guns, great, but dont ask for a warp to waste my time to get arrows to skill up your gimpy skill lvl.
I dont think I was asking too much for him to switch back to slug shot, and I wasnt being critical until he refused to. Also, he said 40 arrows, but he was working on that stack for at least 20 minutes, being 58 rng i know that 20 minutes will eat up a ton more arrows than 60.
I didnt even see him use a gun the whole time we were xping, its like he went from holy bolts (which i dont mind) to scorpion arrows (i dont mind either). If we went from xbow to bow then why did we bother to wait for him to get bullets? Imho I dont think he ever intended to use bullets (which i yet again dont mind) but if he didnt intend to, then why bother telling the party that you intended to use a gun.
After i threw a fit and warped i messaged Oriana and apologised, which she said she agreed with me, Ferra messaged me and i explained what happened and she apologised for not listening and just siding with her friend, the rng.
I dont care if a rng uses bullets, bolts, or bullets, my whole point is, if you should xp, then bring your best weapon/armor/food etc, I dont mind people skilling up at all, but if the skill is way tooooo low for the mobs then thats where i pipe up. If you want to use guns, great, but dont ask for a warp to waste my time to get arrows to skill up your gimpy skill lvl.
I dont think I was asking too much for him to switch back to slug shot, and I wasnt being critical until he refused to. Also, he said 40 arrows, but he was working on that stack for at least 20 minutes, being 58 rng i know that 20 minutes will eat up a ton more arrows than 60.
Quote:
59 Rng Tanshin
All I have to say is that by that lvl, you should know that keeping both skills capped is a must. If it was just after he lvled and his skill was capped the lvl before, that's fine. But I agree with Kyoto, don't waste my time with a skillup session during an exp party unless one of these things occur.
A.) A member D/C's and you just want something to do while they are gone and are killing things that are T or EM.
B.) You're waiting for a replacement to get to camp and the above contitions apply.
C.) A person runs out of items(ie. arrows, shurikens, food, etc.)and while they are gone the same contitions apply.
It's not being an elitist when you try to squash a problem or explain your stance on a situation.
And BTW you have the right to warp/drop from any party you wish, that's why SE gave you the disband function.
Edited, Fri May 19 19:14:28 2006 by Vaulout
lolgaxe wrote:
Thumping your chest for high parses against Colibri is like saying you outran the fastest man in the world after the guy broke his leg.
http://vaulout.mybrute.com
So.... Instead of putting up with 10 more minutes of mediocre exp, you decided to waste everyones time by warping out? Especially since you guys had a replacement dragged out.
You're an conceited if you think your decision was justified.
You're an conceited if you think your decision was justified.
15 posts
now time for a noobs point of view (lol)
i agree the ranger should raise his skills out of the exp party.
the biggest problem i see with this is that he didn't switch to gun when told to. if he knows its bothering the party he should stop, no matter his reason for starting so he could better help the party. he should know by that lvl what he should be doing, but asuming that he didn't, after being told he would have no excuse for slowing down the party, and i think that justifies leaving the party.
if i were in that situation i would have probobly warped and began finding or starting a new party.
Edited, Sun May 21 16:45:31 2006 by ChocoKingEace
i agree the ranger should raise his skills out of the exp party.
the biggest problem i see with this is that he didn't switch to gun when told to. if he knows its bothering the party he should stop, no matter his reason for starting so he could better help the party. he should know by that lvl what he should be doing, but asuming that he didn't, after being told he would have no excuse for slowing down the party, and i think that justifies leaving the party.
if i were in that situation i would have probobly warped and began finding or starting a new party.
Edited, Sun May 21 16:45:31 2006 by ChocoKingEace
Quote:
So.... Instead of putting up with 10 more minutes of mediocre exp, you decided to waste everyones time by warping out? Especially since you guys had a replacement dragged out.
You're an conceited if you think your decision was justified.
You're an conceited if you think your decision was justified.
I dont think i should have to wait for 10 more minutes (it would have been much longer than 10) after sending him to get bullets and coming back to lvl up a underleveled weapon. The replacement came at least a hour before I warped out, so its not like I left him hanging.
I also forgot to mention, we were doing slug > rampage with a 800 bliz II mb... when he switched to piercing he never said anything to anyone, and never said when he was going to weaponskill. So basically we wasted over 1,000 dmg a fight from just the sc/mb.
Kyo you should have D2'd his *** and found a replacement.
So lemme get this straight. Kyo's a cockmonger for wanting efficiency in exp, but Tanshin somehow isn't for wanting to skillup in exp, therefore gimping the party's exp?
I donno about you, but this reeks of doublestandard. How is it right for you people to crucify one person for his preferences, but turn another into a martyr for his?
******* trolls. I swear to God. Do you even think before you write, sometimes?
Edited, Mon May 22 13:43:02 2006 by Alauce
I donno about you, but this reeks of doublestandard. How is it right for you people to crucify one person for his preferences, but turn another into a martyr for his?
******* trolls. I swear to God. Do you even think before you write, sometimes?
Edited, Mon May 22 13:43:02 2006 by Alauce
Ala i think you should stop holding back so much. Tell us how you really feel. LOL. I don't see how there is even ground for the ranger to stand on. Kyo was right and the other posters are th real ***-hats
You want to skill up then join a skill up party. You want to exp then join an exp party. But don't join my exp party and expect me to deal with your skill up actions. Its called considersation and not elitism.
Next time just cast Bio2 over and over to make your point.
Next time just cast Bio2 over and over to make your point.
I remove what i said about Kyo being an ***-hat.
just like in every arguments there are 2 sides.
*I think Kyo was impatient to not wanna wait for 40 arrows to be shot. 40 arrows is nothing and can be spend in less than 10mins. But I aggree that you already have waited for him so that explains it.
*I think the ranger was a little psycho to make such a big deal for 40 miserable arrows that he could just have tossed away... its not like 40 arrows will break a ranger's wallet.
in anyway , I think that would have gone better without breaking the party... i mean.. isnt it a little extreme ? unless you were about to leave anyway. But if you were doing good exp before the rng start using arrows, it could have gone just as good if 1) you would have been a little more patient or 2) the Rng would have aggred to just toss the damn arrows.
so the 2 sides are lack or : patience vs consideration
since Kyo showed patience by waiting for the rng to buy bullets and Rng showed a big lack of consideration twice by not coming prepared to the pt and by skilling up, i have to admit Kyoto was right.
I just wanted to edit my opinion on this. My bad english = missreading = nonaccurate opinion .
peace
just like in every arguments there are 2 sides.
*I think Kyo was impatient to not wanna wait for 40 arrows to be shot. 40 arrows is nothing and can be spend in less than 10mins. But I aggree that you already have waited for him so that explains it.
*I think the ranger was a little psycho to make such a big deal for 40 miserable arrows that he could just have tossed away... its not like 40 arrows will break a ranger's wallet.
in anyway , I think that would have gone better without breaking the party... i mean.. isnt it a little extreme ? unless you were about to leave anyway. But if you were doing good exp before the rng start using arrows, it could have gone just as good if 1) you would have been a little more patient or 2) the Rng would have aggred to just toss the damn arrows.
so the 2 sides are lack or : patience vs consideration
since Kyo showed patience by waiting for the rng to buy bullets and Rng showed a big lack of consideration twice by not coming prepared to the pt and by skilling up, i have to admit Kyoto was right.
I just wanted to edit my opinion on this. My bad english = missreading = nonaccurate opinion .
peace
Being a mage I would have done the same as you Kyoto. You invite jobs into the party expecting them to do their job and not mess around. It seemed like the ranger was ******** around and got called on it. If he wanted to skill up, he should have done that on his own time and not 5 other peoples time. It would be the same as inviting a warrior who is using a GA then all of a sudded switches to a sword or polearm just because he wanted to skill up with it atm. Not only does that gimp damage to the mob but it also screws with the skillchain and the magic burst. Or better yet having a white mage who decides not to cure for a while because they want to cast dia, flash and holy on the mob to cap enfeebling and divine skill.
3 posts
I don't think this was worth making a thread over. Worse things have happened; Don't come crying to the forums every time someone does something not of your standards. And no, I was not missing with the arrows, I was still doing a good deal of damage. If I was missing, I'd have stopped after a few arrows.
I'd like to tell my side, if I may. No, we were not getting constant chain 5's while I had crossbow equipped either. Many of the chain 5's we did manage to get were when the goblin killed himself, and almost us (stun, where?). And her story is also flawed because with 40 arrows I'd most likely have been through them before we even got to chain 5, especially with the quick bow I was using. I don't even recall waiting until a chain 5 opportunity before all this happened. And do you notice that in later posts , the wait time for me getting my bullets gets longer and longer as more people argue against her? I wasted no time getting my bullets because I got there around the same time as the replacement that finally responded to my tell after a long time. I was looking for one the whole time.
In any case, the OP was a fairly objective account on the events that took place (aside from the typo cheap shot at me in parenthesis). Despite the apparent defenses for my side in this thread, I'll admit that using arrows, even if only 40, was not in the best interest of experience points; Which is why we were there, obviously. On the other hand, I also admit if Kyo had been less of a snob about it, I probably would've gone ahead with the usage of my bullets.
OH, and I did in fact respond when she asked what level my archery was. I said "Not too high, not too low" or something to that effect. I believe it was 165 at the time. I'm a 63 rng now, and its capped along with marksmanship.
To sum everything up, I was probably wrong for using bow and I'm sorry. In the end I agree with Kyo, just not her methods. Appealing less to emotion to manipulate people in your arguments would be far more beneficial for your plight. Search not to be the victor of an argument, but for truth. Think critically!
(don't bother rating me up or down, I most likely won't be posting here again unless something like this comes up)
I'd like to tell my side, if I may. No, we were not getting constant chain 5's while I had crossbow equipped either. Many of the chain 5's we did manage to get were when the goblin killed himself, and almost us (stun, where?). And her story is also flawed because with 40 arrows I'd most likely have been through them before we even got to chain 5, especially with the quick bow I was using. I don't even recall waiting until a chain 5 opportunity before all this happened. And do you notice that in later posts , the wait time for me getting my bullets gets longer and longer as more people argue against her? I wasted no time getting my bullets because I got there around the same time as the replacement that finally responded to my tell after a long time. I was looking for one the whole time.
In any case, the OP was a fairly objective account on the events that took place (aside from the typo cheap shot at me in parenthesis). Despite the apparent defenses for my side in this thread, I'll admit that using arrows, even if only 40, was not in the best interest of experience points; Which is why we were there, obviously. On the other hand, I also admit if Kyo had been less of a snob about it, I probably would've gone ahead with the usage of my bullets.
OH, and I did in fact respond when she asked what level my archery was. I said "Not too high, not too low" or something to that effect. I believe it was 165 at the time. I'm a 63 rng now, and its capped along with marksmanship.
To sum everything up, I was probably wrong for using bow and I'm sorry. In the end I agree with Kyo, just not her methods. Appealing less to emotion to manipulate people in your arguments would be far more beneficial for your plight. Search not to be the victor of an argument, but for truth. Think critically!
(don't bother rating me up or down, I most likely won't be posting here again unless something like this comes up)
Quote:
I'd most likely have been through them before we even got to chain 5, especially with the quick bow I was using.
Using a quick bow at lvl 59... I rest my case.
**edit** Oh, and i
- was
Edited, Jun 9th 2006 at 7:38am EST by Kyotokombat
Kyoto: this thread was dead... was it really worth bringing it back up to get the last word, when OOPS! you didn't get the last word?
Admit it, every last one of the FFXI players have at some time or another had done skill-ups in an xp party, you included Kyoto. XP is XP - as long as it's flowing and no one is dying, who the heck cares if RNG-bob uses low level bow and arrow/bolts to skill-up off of last 30-40 ammo pieces? Heck, I'd pull with the low-level ammo too just to get it out of my inventory!
XP parties for me have always been fun - if they aren't fun for you, then you have the choice and ability to leave - NOT BAIL, but advise that "it's not working for me - please find a replacement".
Zuzeeque
Windy Rank 7
ZM 16
CoP 8-3
ToAU 8
BLM 75/THF 59/WHM 47/RDM 46/RNG 41/NIN 34/SMN 22/WAR 20/BST 18
Admit it, every last one of the FFXI players have at some time or another had done skill-ups in an xp party, you included Kyoto. XP is XP - as long as it's flowing and no one is dying, who the heck cares if RNG-bob uses low level bow and arrow/bolts to skill-up off of last 30-40 ammo pieces? Heck, I'd pull with the low-level ammo too just to get it out of my inventory!
XP parties for me have always been fun - if they aren't fun for you, then you have the choice and ability to leave - NOT BAIL, but advise that "it's not working for me - please find a replacement".
Zuzeeque
Windy Rank 7
ZM 16
CoP 8-3
ToAU 8
BLM 75/THF 59/WHM 47/RDM 46/RNG 41/NIN 34/SMN 22/WAR 20/BST 18
No, I have to have the last word.^^
Scholar
35 posts
ahh nevermind f**k it...
Edited, Jun 14th 2006 at 4:46am EDT by TheRoyze
Edited, Jun 14th 2006 at 4:46am EDT by TheRoyze
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