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My first post in 4 Months on Bismarck~Please readFollow

#1 Jul 28 2005 at 10:59 PM Rating: Decent
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919 posts
Hey~
Let me just first start off saying that In my stay in Bismarck i have not caused any drauma or been involved in any drauma, just stay to myself and friends.

Something happened 2 hours ago that just enrages me, my friend Sharpshooter(Good honest player) accidently put his SH+1 in his bazaar in Bastok for 15,000 instead of 15,000,00 and was purchased by Terrestrialrage. I know this was completely his fault but throw him a bone it could be a simple mistake and people make mistakes.

Terrestrialrage's attitude towards Sharpshooter was just the icing on the cake. Im not whining or complaining in any way just filling in on the story. All im asking for is you to take this into consideration, i just want this to make it a known about what he did. React to it how you want to react say "Its his own damn fault" or "Terrestrialrage should have acted differently". We have a bad player alert thread but after posting on this site for a year and 1/2 i think i deserve one post of my own.

Just please think about what he did before inviting him to something, i know Bismarck will take this into consideration. I know for myself i will never invite him into anything im involved in and give him a few pets to play with. Thank you for listening to my /rant and please remember we are entitled to our own opinions so no flaming.

Edited, Fri Jul 29 00:03:53 2005 by Moshiiii
#2 Jul 28 2005 at 11:12 PM Rating: Good
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617 posts
OK I'm really tired but I think I'm missing something...what story are you conveying here? That your friend put an item up for a mistaken price and got caught on it? Well I'm really sorry to hear that, I truly am, I'd be mad too, but it happens. Terrestrialrage has no obligation to give it back. Perhaps it would be considered polite to do so, but...

I'm not taking his side, I don't even know him, but I'm not gonna go so far as to not invite someone for getting lucky with a purchase. Is that what you're asking? I'm not sure I'm understanding completely. But if that's true, then that's a really arrogant thing to say. I want to know why you feel this warrants a ban on inviting him. Give us more reason than your friend getting a bum deal. It's just not enough.

I don't know maybe I've completely misread your post. It goes without saying but getting lucky on a purchase DOES NOT inherently make you a bad player. You said Terrestrialrage gave your friend an attitude. Let's hear it. We'll need more reason to totally ban people from a party than just getting really lucky on a price.

Edited, Fri Jul 29 00:32:21 2005 by seraphimhunter
#3 Jul 28 2005 at 11:42 PM Rating: Good
Unfortunately, once you make a mistake like that -- create an accidental situation in which someone else may easily get the best of you -- it's pretty much out of your hands. It becomes a situation in which the other person has the ball once they've been informed of the mistake.

Whether they 'drop the ball' or not, there still isn't blame on the other party. The item was listed and bought at xxx price; I might list a stack of fire crystals for 500 gil, but the guy that buys them at that price isn't at fault. It's on me; the ball went out of my hands on the transaction once the price was set.

This kind of thing happens a lot, and I'm sorry it happened to your friend, but Terrestrial wasn't in the wrong for buying/keeping the item. :( It may not seem fair, but the price was listed and the item purchased fairly.

I'm sorry it happened though, I've been there, and it sucks -_-
#4 Jul 29 2005 at 12:40 AM Rating: Decent
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57 posts
Mosh didn't really get his point across in his post about TR's attitude about the whole situation.

When Sharpshooter asked him about it, he wouldn't even respond, even though everyone knew he was there. He said "he was quitting the game anyways in about 2 months so it didn't matter if noone liked him". <--If you're quitting, why be an asshat to someone like Sharpshooter who worked so hard for that money?

Anyhow, it's done and over, Sharpshooter is now retiring a 65 NIN(one of the best I know) for a level 14 MNK. I'm just glad Sharpshooter enjoys the game enough to keep playing after that. I would have thought people would have more sympathy.

Like ya'll said, he has no reason to give it back, but come on...15 mil..

Edited, Fri Jul 29 01:39:53 2005 by Duesch

Edited, Fri Jul 29 02:58:02 2005 by Duesch
#5 Jul 29 2005 at 1:16 AM Rating: Decent
I don't know Sharpshooter or Terrestrialrage, so this is my unbiased opinion. This isn't meant as a flame, so don't take it that way.

Yes it was a mistake but that doesn't make it right. Legally there's nothing anyone can do but for the love of god, have some fu[b][/b]cking morals.

I wouldn't consider it getting "lucky" on a price either. It's exploitation, plain and simple. He got a 15 million gil item for 15 thousand gil. Most people have never seen 15 million gil, let alone spent it on one item. Just put yourself in Sharpshooter's shoes.

Duesch wrote:
He said he was quitting the game anyways in about 2 months so it didn't matter if noone liked him.


Does this sound like someone you would want in your PT? It's like hiring a kidnapper to babysit your kids.

This game is worse than RL half the time, I swear.
#6 Jul 29 2005 at 3:10 AM Rating: Good
28 posts
Is called morales. You honestly gonna say that if you lost a 15mil item because of a simple mistake that you wouldn't care? I sure would, I'd want it back. Then he not even reply to your tells? You still don't find a problem here? If you think not returning the item is ok then your mother needs to slap the **** out of you because any half decent mom would of tried to teach you the diffrence between right and wrong.
#7 Jul 29 2005 at 5:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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617 posts
Quote:
When Sharpshooter asked him about it, he wouldn't even respond, even though everyone knew he was there. He said "he was quitting the game anyways in about 2 months so it didn't matter if noone liked him". <--If you're quitting, why be an asshat to someone like Sharpshooter who worked so hard for that money?


Well thank you because without that statement, all we see is a rant followed by a request to ban him from parties. And you guys can rate me down all you like for going against the whole thing but I really don't care. I didn't see TR's response so forgive me for requesting an explanation on it. I'm not going to refuse to invite someone on the simple grounds of getting an item at an extreme discount. Now that I have this testimony, yeah, I can see where Mosh is coming from. And yeah, I do think that it was pretty damn rude of TR to say that. And you can't lie to me and say only TR has tried to get an extremely pricey item for a low price like that. Couple of you guys here have probably tried it yourself.

Quote:
wouldn't consider it getting "lucky" on a price either. It's exploitation, plain and simple. He got a 15 million gil item for 15 thousand gil. Most people have never seen 15 million gil, let alone spent it on one item. Just put yourself in Sharpshooter's shoes.


And this is just plain ridiculous. Look up exploit. It's NOT an exploit that TR just happened to want that item and got it for a mistakenly marked price. Unless TR knew at that time that Sharpshooter put the item up for a wrong price then it is plain and simple luck.

And yes, I damn well would be pissed if I lost out on a 15 million item. Anyone would be. I mean hell that's a no brainer. But TR is not in the wrong for getting lucky on this price. He's pretty damn rude for the attitude, yes, and I will be the first to admit that it would be polite and proper for him to return it but not everyone on the planet is a saint.

People do this EVERY DAY. Every single day! And I am truly sorry to hear that Sharpshooter would lose out on this much money. But it is not TR's fault. Not in the least. The only thing I can fault him on at this point is his bad attitude and I frown upon his lack of chivalry. But hey, there's lots of people like this in the world. Can't expect them to drop their personalities for a video game.

I welcome your rate downs with open arms. I'm not afraid to speak my mind on this.
#8 Jul 29 2005 at 6:03 AM Rating: Good
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716 posts
Heh. Judging by TR's large amount of "I love you Sharpshooter!!!!!" shouts in Jeuno, you'd think he'd be quite, er, indebted to the guy. I've played with Sharpshooter on NIN a few times, and he's a good tank. I'd be sorry to see him retire his NIN over such a tawdry piece of equipment such as a scorp harness, but I don't fault Terrestrialrage in the least.

He may have had a bad attitude in this instance, but one bad deed does not exclude an ingame lifetime of helpfulness. I've known TR for months, and he's always been helpful, cheerful, and kind to those around him. I'd be a bit snappish if somebody tried to make me give back an item I purchased fair-and-square, too.

Edited, Fri Jul 29 07:08:50 2005 by Alauce
#9 Jul 29 2005 at 7:23 AM Rating: Decent
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345 posts
Alauce, that is perhaps one side of TR you saw, but he actually is just a complete prick which he had proven again yesterday.

I'm just glad to know that he will quit soon. Good riddance.

Anyone who would make the mistake would want it back. People can make these mistakes, but there is no need to punish them for it by keeping the item.
#10 Jul 29 2005 at 7:34 AM Rating: Excellent
Jack of All Trades
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29,633 posts
If you slip and mess up on setting the price of something like that, obviously the 15 million didn't mean much to you to begin with.

Quote:
I wouldn't consider it getting "lucky" on a price either. It's exploitation, plain and simple. He got a 15 million gil item for 15 thousand gil. Most people have never seen 15 million gil, let alone spent it on one item. Just put yourself in Sharpshooter's shoes.


No, it wasn't a 15 million gil item, it was a 15k item in that case. You don't determine the price for everyone, the seller determines his own price.

Quote:
And you can't lie to me and say only TR has tried to get an extremely pricey item for a low price like that. Couple of you guys here have probably tried it yourself.


Why does this matter?

If you set the low price, whether by accident or on purpose, you are running the risk that someone will catch on. Don't try and turn the buyers into the bad guys; the sellers have full control over how much they can get for their items (within enough reason so that people will actually buy them, of course).

Anyone who tries to get cheap items in this way is merely shopping smart, and hearing stories similar to this one only encourages them and makes them think "hey, HE got that item cheap, maybe I can too!"
#11 Jul 29 2005 at 7:44 AM Rating: Good
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84 posts
I posted a 300k gil item at the AH once and it was bought for 3 million gil. Yeah, the gil would've been nice, don't get me wrong. But I went back to the AH history, found out who bought the item and made sure he got his gil back.

It's a game. You can be honest and actually have fun with it or you can be an asshat. It's your choice. If TR wants to be an asshat, yeah, he's free to do so. Just don't expect me to have any respect for him.

And if anyone cares more about gil than common human decency, then I worry about him. A lot.
#12 Jul 29 2005 at 8:25 AM Rating: Excellent
Mosh,

I like you and I would stand by you but man, I simply can't here.

Sharpshooter - If I was selling an item for an ungodly amount of gil like a SH+1 I would:

1) try shouting in Jeuno for a buyer (cant afford tax on such a thing, goodness, i dont even wanna think about it).
2) If I did have the money to blow on tax I woulda at least DOUBLE CHECKED AH price I set. I always double check my AH prices regardless.

Also sharp, if you paid the tax and CONFIRMED the price of tax was a mere 800 gil for a 15,000,000 item wouldnt that have set off a light in your head? Iit just sounds like you didn't want to pay the tax to me.

People try to undercut AH all the time on expensive items just to avoid tax, I do it for every stack of crystals, 401 gil hahaha, I always get full value too. I'm guilty myself trying to get a "deal" on gear I need, such as Penient's Rope HQ Staves...No luck though.

Edited, Fri Jul 29 09:26:02 2005 by Qinnydar
#13 Jul 29 2005 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
I don't understand how these types of mistakes can happen to begin with. How can you put up a 15 million gil item for just 15,000 gil? Just the difference in the number of zeros alone and the sheer value of it should make people at least somewhat careful about pricing. In addition, even if you did somehow set the price at 15,000 gil, the bazaar wouldn't even become available for purchasing until you get past another inventory screen to boot. With the checks in place, it's baffling how mistakes like these can be common at times.

While I am sorry that your friend suffered an enormous loss, do not take it out on the buyer for that sheer fact alone. Square has put forth enough checks in this game so that if someone, somehow, does royally ***** up and another snatches it up, it is no one's fault but the seller. Heck, this scenario still amazes me; to be off by three digits like that...
#14 Jul 29 2005 at 9:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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92 posts
I'm really sorry to hear about your bros bad luck. This happens alot. There is no right answer. I dont think either party did anything wrong. We would all like to think that the buyer would listen to reason and return the item. Just as we all want everyone on the server to treat each other with respect.

I would like to think that I would do the compassionate thing and return the item. As far as right or wrong...in this case I dont see that. I just see someone taking advantage of somebodys' mistake and that sux for both sides. I cant imagime feeling good about doing something like that.

Sorry about your loss Sharpshooter...good luck^^

#15 Jul 29 2005 at 10:34 AM Rating: Decent
Seraphimhunter wrote:
And this is just plain ridiculous. Look up exploit. It's NOT an exploit that TR just happened to want that item and got it for a mistakenly marked price.


http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=exploit

[Please Check It.]

The second definition sounds pretty dead on if you ask me:

To make use of selfishly or unethically.

Firacat wrote:
Is called morales. You honestly gonna say that if you lost a 15mil item because of a simple mistake that you wouldn't care? I sure would, I'd want it back. Then he not even reply to your tells? You still don't find a problem here? If you think not returning the item is ok then your mother needs to slap the sh*t out of you because any half decent mom would of tried to teach you the diffrence between right and wrong.


Exactly.


And Yue, no rate-downs from me, this is just a discussion and someone should never be rated down for having an opinion ^^




#16 Jul 29 2005 at 11:08 AM Rating: Decent
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919 posts
quote=Qinnydar]Mosh,

Also sharp, if you paid the tax and CONFIRMED the price of tax was a mere 800 gil for a 15,000,000 item wouldnt that have set off a light in your head? Iit just sounds like you didn't want to pay the tax to me.


Edited, Fri Jul 29 09:26:02 2005 by Qinnydar[/quote]

It was Bazzar'ed
#17 Jul 29 2005 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
>.<

Oh..................hmmm, nvm then.
#18 Jul 29 2005 at 12:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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1,705 posts
ya know there has to be some middle ground here. Ima just making suggestion. If Tr was to sell the SH+1 and split it down the middle giving 7.5 mil back to sharpshooter. Ima thinking it's better to fix the problem then fix the blame. I know TR is not obligated to do so, but a 7.5 mil return on 15 k is pretty damn good and 7.5 mil back to SS might help his pain and suffering for making a mistake on the listing
#19 Jul 29 2005 at 1:47 PM Rating: Default
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345 posts
How about rage gives back the harness and he gets back the 15k, maybe something extra. Why does everything have to take a difficult path to run or one that just isn't fair to the victim ffs ._.
#20 Jul 29 2005 at 3:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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1,705 posts
there is no victim. SS put it up and TR bought it. I think splitting profit isa good solution. imo.
#21 Jul 29 2005 at 4:51 PM Rating: Good
21 posts
Well, seems like ive become quite the celebrity. First off, I would like to say that I am going to sell it, split it half, and give SS 1/2. This is ONLY because of Zechz. SS you have an amazing friend in him and i respect him more than anyone else on this server.

Now im going to make my case. I bought it very fairly through his bazaar at 15k. I did fake an afk to see what people had to say about me and the situation. Giving it back, or giving it back with some type of gift was going through my mind. Then Hawky showed up. This is the same douche that accused me of looting and scooting with my Osode from a dying LS. Then he starts talking crap about me in /say. Then Zechz comes and is very courteous and polite in how he talked to me, asking to give it back, and it was Zechz alone who pushed me very close to just giving it back.

Then Jigga starts telling my GF that im cheating on her and that shes just another one of my quick screws... Hell no. Lacy (my GF) calls me, crying her eyes out (cuz shes been cheated on before, and is hurt by it), asking why people have to be such bastards. Thats when i decided i was gonna be a hard *** and not give anything back. People need to stay the hell out of other's business, as that was totally uncalled for, and SS, youd have it back if it werent for Jigga.

So yes, i will split it and give 1/2 to SS. I am generally known as a helpful, nice person, but when people start attacking me and my GF who had NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS AT ALL, im pushed not to be so nice anymore. That is all.
#22 Jul 29 2005 at 6:12 PM Rating: Good
Jack of All Trades
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29,633 posts
Quote:
It's a game. You can be honest and actually have fun with it or you can be an asshat. It's your choice. If TR wants to be an asshat, yeah, he's free to do so. Just don't expect me to have any respect for him.


How does legitimately buying an item from someone's bazaar, regardless of the price, make that person an asshat?
#23 Jul 29 2005 at 6:56 PM Rating: Decent
Wouldn't any honest and decent person just send the guy a /tell and let him know of the mistake? If I had seen him, I probably would've bought it, then immediately initiated a trade in return for my 15k. Just seems like it would've been the "right" thing to do in this situation. O.o;
#24 Jul 29 2005 at 7:09 PM Rating: Good
I think he bought it fair and sqaure. I think selling it and giving 1/2 is a bit tricky but at least he gets some of his cash back.
#25 Jul 29 2005 at 8:28 PM Rating: Decent
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84 posts
Fynlar wrote:

How does legitimately buying an item from someone's bazaar, regardless of the price, make that person an asshat?


If you see a SH in a bazaar for 15k, even a non HQ version, you're not going to assume that the seller is trying to drive the price down for some reason of his own. You know it's a mistake. While the whole cut-throat idea of taking advantage of it for your own personal benefit is, admittedly, running rampant in this server (stealing claims, etc., are actions that are done for the same reason), I think it's a bit ridiculous in a video game.
#26 Jul 29 2005 at 8:31 PM Rating: Decent
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228 posts
I'd have to say that, at least getting half of the money back rather than just making 15,000 is at least a little bit better.

However, wtf? It was obviously a mistake. The person who did it is not in question, because, undoubtedly, the first person who had seen that Harness in the bazaar and had any clue what it was really worth would have jumped on that. It comes back to what other people said though, once it has been realized that the seller had apparently made a mistake in placing the item in his bazaar for that amount, it really just comes down to morals.

It doesn't mean a damn thing how many people you've helped in the course of time you played. That doesn't mean that occasionally you have license to take something like that from someone who obviously, and admittedly, made a mistake. On top of that, as I previously stated, 7.5mil back is a much nicer cut than the 15,000gil slap in the face that would have otherwise remained the deal. Nevertheless, they're now splitting a 15mil item as 50/50 when one half of that never did anything at all to earn it.

A decent portion of you applaud like "Oooh nice, he's being alright about it and giving him *half of the money he worked his *** off for* back". Doesn't work for me. It was a mistake. It's a game. Just let the guy enjoy what he's decided to make into his past-time and give him the money back. It's what I'd do and I'm pretty sure it's what anyone with any remote sense of pride or even common decency would do.

To be at a point where you have no problem taking 7.5mil that you didn't do a damn thing, except run by a bazaar at the right time, for is just plain low. It may be less than the previous 15mil that had been made into a profit, but it doesn't change the fact that all you did was have the nerve to take advantage of an honest mistake made by someone who worked a lot harder for that money than you. It sort of proves that you're either desperate for money or slightly off enough to actually believe that you're in the right about it.

I'm not involved in the situation as far as it actually happening goes, but I am aware Rage bragged about this harness to a friend of mine as though it was something he had actually earned, which he most certainly had not. It wasn't a very bright mistake that Sharpshooter made, not at all, but it doesn't justify what Rage did in the slightest. Buying it is one thing. Choosing not to return it upon learning that it was an accident is another.

I'm just going to go with the idea that, regardless of how much you've done for other people, you are not, in any way, now free to profit off of another player's mistake. It's really rather pathetic to do so. If you want 15mil, take a few weeks off and farm it. 7.5 is about two, maybe not even if you do well. Have some dignity, or maybe even some morals, and just give the poor guy a full refund.
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