EQ2 or WoW>> Which is better??Follow

And I agree. :) Read my first post about it, because I actually _want_ it. But there are several different ways to go about the feature.

For the Morrowind example, a generic sword that I can remember had around 600 points of durability. Each time you used it, it would go down and at certain points, the effectiveness gets less. The realistic parts are when the item degrades (every time you use it) and the effect durability has on the stats of the item. The game part is there's enough durability in the item that travelling from town to town, you won't find yourself weaponless every time. Just when you forget to repair your stuff when you get to civilisation.

In the System Shock 2 example, there's about 10 levels or so of durability. Every time you use a weapon, it would check to see if the item would degrade down a level. Obviously, if the weapon degrades whenever it is used, you'll end up with many a broken toy, so it doesn't work that way. It degrades quickly, believe it or not, but not every instance. Effectiveness doesn't lessen because that would've made it much more harsh.

Yes, weapons and armor should degrade (because it's cooler and more challenging ^^), but there are different ways that it can be done. That's all I was mentioning. :)

In EQ2, it's a bit nonsense, since the only time weapons and armor degrades is when you die. -_-;

i ordered 2 copies from blizzards official online store yesterday and got order confirmation that they'll ship within 24 hours.... I just checked blizzards store they still are showing WoW for purchase. no out of stock notice. so where did you come to this assumption?

---edit. 10 mins later, blizzard store shows out of stock. lol =)

Edited, Thu Jan 13 10:01:42 2005 by sotonin

I hate my friends... Here's a conversation between us:

[08:13] Buddy: xxxx as horde, i have a horde there too, just focusing on zzzz on wwww right now
[08:14] Buddy: xxxx is overcrowded and has a queue to log on at primetime
[08:14] Me: ok, maybe I will skip that server then
[08:14] Buddy: well what's great about WoW is, it's supereasy to level, supereasy to make money, etc
[08:14] Buddy: it's not like a chore to just make more than 1 character or multiple servers
[08:14] Buddy: not like FFXI where it's physically painful to do anything
[08:14] Buddy: WoW is very, very friendly
[08:15] Me: Hahaha, that's why I quit FFXI
[08:18] Me: EQII is kind of feeling like that too. I have to put so much work into having fun
[08:18] Me: fun shouldn't require you to 'work'
[08:19] Buddy: well, then WoW is for you
[08:19] Buddy: it takes every painful MMO tradition and disregards them
[08:19] Buddy: even crafting is painless, easy, and productive
[08:20] Me: I ordered it and can't wait to get started!
[08:20] Me: thanks man
[08:22] Buddy: :D
[08:22] Buddy: it's gewd
[08:22] Buddy: for the most part nothing really feels like a chore
[08:22] Buddy: and the gameworld is breathtaking
[08:22] Buddy: it's not the best pure graphics, like models and (poopie) i guess
[08:22] Buddy: but for just design it's unmatched
[08:24] Me: stop it, you are making me want to play it even more. hahah!
[08:24] Buddy: it's gr8
[08:25] Me: are races and classes pretty evenly matched? in the sense that no one class is over used due to its greatness?
[08:25] Me: I read a lot about paladins having their 3 lives...
[08:25] Buddy: i'm honestly not sure
[08:26] Buddy: every class can solo or group for exp and quests, no one is gimped for PvE
[08:26] Buddy: PvP, no real idea, i think warlocks, druids, shadow priests, and paladins are considered best, rogues good too, warriors are considered worst right now i think but are still workable
[08:27] Me: gotcha. so you're just having fun with the game then
[08:28] Buddy: yeah any class will have fun.
[08:28] Buddy: every class has offensive capability
[08:28] Buddy: nothing at all is like, say, exping WHM to lv10
[08:29] Buddy: also you make money in the game naturally
[08:29] Me: oh the pain... thanks for the memories >_<
[08:30] Me: I'm not entirely giving up on EQII... I still like a lot of its features. Its just not as fun as it first was.
[08:30] Me: I even ordered another gig of RAM for my pc to go with my X800
[08:30] Me: the game look s beautiful... and that's pretty much all I do with it now
[08:31] Buddy: WoW looks beautiful
[08:31] Buddy: and you can mail letters to people
[08:31] Me: EQII makes me stand in my room to sell....

Well, that transcription of that dialogue between Tocopheryl and his friends left me without any of comment. It speaks by itself.
Toco..are you now playing WoW?? How is it? Are the graphics THAT cartoonik? is the game good? or are EQ2 quests better?

Pasho.

Okay I'm a WoW player that played EQ1 for 4.5 years. I have to say for the first 15 levels I wasn't terribly impressed, same old run around kill stuff. From level 15 I took my first gryphon flight to Stormwind... the WoW factor was just incrediable, I started to get more addicted at this point. At 22 I grouped up and headed into my first instance dungeon... Instance dungeons are basically WoW's grouping zones, they require tactics and are where the best loot and cash are to be found. Each instance has quests related to it and most of them give very good upgrades/cash rewards. You can solo WoW to 60, but if you do your missing best (to me) part of the game.

Instances are just plain FUN. There is scripting and events and the fact they require a full group and solid tatics to kill the bosses is awesome. Each one is different. Anyone who has played the lvl 60+ game in EQ1 and encountered the boss fights and loved the tactics ect in them? Well each instance has something of the sort and you can start doing them at level 20!

I'll give an example: Uldaman, its a Indiana Jones rip-off designed for level 44-50. You have to pick up a staff and another drop and combine them and place them in a city model. The model activates and shoots a beam of light at a door which glows and opens... It's just awesome to watch and be a part of. The boss mob fight of this dungeon was insane (we failed it on first attempt and are looking forward to going back to try again). We opened up these huge doors and 'peaked' into the boss room and nearly ran in fear. Standing in the room is a HUGE giant that is at least 10-15 times bigger than what I am. Surrounding him is a 4 statues. Surrounding those is 20 smaller statues and 2 mini giants. You walk into the room and quake with fear. There is an altar in the middle which the group activates... The middle gaint comes alive and the fight begins. As he is attacked - he activates each of the small in turn statues and they attack you, once he is down to about 60% health the 4 guards activate all at once and attack you, At 25% health the boss activates the 2 mini giants... at this point we wiped! but it was an insanely FUN fight.

WoW has a lot to offer it. My problem is the game progresses VERY fast. (yeah okay I play a LOT, casual players won't have as much problem with this). Graphics in WoW might seem cartoony but you soon get used to them and over time you find views that are a breathtaking and you scoff at the thought that WoW has poor graphics. The griffon flight from Ironforge to Southshore/Arathi mountains takes you over some beautiful waterfalls that still give me shivers to see.

Yes, equipement in WoW needs to be repaired. I have to do this about every 5-6 hours of play, depending on how much I die, will depend on how much it costs to repair at level 45 as plate wearing warrior it costs 1.3g if the repairs I need are extensive. The cost to train is always signficant... This is always a constant drain on your cash resources and something that you have to constantly plan for. The 90g you need to train riding and buy a mount if your not a paladin/warlock is a major undertaking if you want it AT level 40. However loot is plentiful in the game! From level 10 onwards you start seeing good item drops from random creatures.

The mailing system is wonderful! So easy to send things to friends or alt on the same faction. The cost is trivial once you level 15 or so. (on the other side the mailing system is the first to get affected if the servers start lagging).

WoW is pure fun, something I was no longer getting in the grind that EQ1 was. You never have to stay in 1 spot more than a few hours at a time and the world is simply HUGE. Thinking EQ1 terms the world is probably as big as EQ was with the karnak expansion. At any level after about level 12ish there is 3-8 zones you can be getting experience in. Now my main is level 46ish I am finding it harder to solo but its still doable if i'm willing to move around for quests (I *hate* grinding in one spot now, due to EQ1 experience).

Anyway, sorry to be take up so much of your time with my thoughts as an old time EQ1 player now WoW player.

Hi Miravelle. I feel your pain with the difficult day you are experiencing. I have them as well. I will share with you a little something my best friend said to me:



I use that whenever I am pissed... or sad. It always works and I always seem to find someone kind and willing to share a smile with me. ^_^

Don't let ignorant people get the best of you. No matter what they do or say, you are still who you are and there are people out there that love you for it. So be happy that you aren't these morons.

I tried WOW on the stress test beta. The game was stable and smooth. However after reaching level 10, I just couldn’t bring my self to log in to candy land again. I personally was very bored with the game. Perhaps I completely missed something exciting, or over looked some thing that brought the joy within the game. It just wasn’t for me I guess. I told my friend that asked about it.” It’s just something you have to try for yourself. I saw a lot of improvements and things I liked about it that no other mmo seemed to offer. It just boils down to your taste.”

Guild Wars is made by the same company that made Lineage II, L2 was extremely buggy and a bot fest and I don’t want to take that risk with GW. Matrix on-line (beta) Worst game I ever played in my entire life. Thank god I could exchange that pre-order for another copy of EQII.

I’m pretty happy with EQII. It’s a large improvement from the other mmo’s I was accustoming to. I’m here to stay. Even with the solo nerf, at least the options still there. I quit the last MMO because I waited over three and a half months for a party, also while actively trying to create them. If it takes me a week to get a party in EQII that’s mega fast, anything below that is a bonus. In the mean time at least I can earn exp. Not at the rate I would like but it’s always there. I really like that. Also I’m a big fan of crafting. First mmo that I’m actually good at it.




Edited, Thu Jan 13 21:13:39 2005 by toxicmoon

well this is kinda alittle off topic but in a sense it fits lol..

From my stand point, EQ2 is a wickedly awsome game. I come from FFXI where you ALWAYS have to get 6 people in a group and ALWAYS get a perfect combination and ALWAYS get 250+ exp a kill or else you "suck" or your group is full of "noobs"...

So, with this frame of mind i come to EQII. Guys, i'm like Holy S***.. FREEDOM ROCKS!!! there are no boundaries to grouping!!! in FFXI only "solo" xp you could get was with a beastmaster... and a healers couldnt solo a rock.. In EQII i can do a party with my bro and we're "teh pwnage" lol.. its so much friken fun for me.

My estimate for WoW.. proly will die down after a while and people will leave because they will get board with it.. think about it, if it takes 1/10 as long to do something in WoW as it takes to do it in EQII, which game do you think will last longer? Also which game offers more new content? so IMO, EQII will win by a landslide when it comes to new material and places to explore.

--THEORY--
you guys are looking in the wrong places for fun, i think they desined EQII for the fun and experience of exploring and adventuring. if you read all these guides and quests on how to do everything guess what... bam there goes all your fun.

Hypothesis for fun!! lol
spend one day leveling and partying
then spend one day as a "relaxing" day and go and explore.. chances are you have not been to every single spot in the world, and chances are there is some neat quest out there that you might find fun doing.

i hope this helps and maybe someone out there will actualy read it >.>

All MMORPGs, simplified: www.progressquest.com (Sorry, just had to throw that in.)

Early EQ2 seems to be following the path of early EQOA. It's jam-packed with content and fun up to just past level 20...then the grind hits you like a ton of bricks. Your options diminish. Soloing becomes worthless when compared with grouping if you want to progress. The quests kind of taper off, and those left worth doing are all-day group/raid affairs. The fun of "let's see if we can beat that" shifts to "I can't afford to die anymore, let's stick with the easy stuff". You can no longer make up for a poor player in a group because they can get you killed now, too. Noobs and powergamers emerge. For some odd reason, this all magically happens at just past level 20, and these are the only two games I've come across this phenomenon.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not some mad levelling fool. I want to enjoy the ride and explore and all that jazz. I can say, however, that a few days at each level is more than enough to enjoy all there is for each one. I've explored as much of this magical, vast world as I can without being annihilated by high red mobs that aggro from a mile and see right through invisibility. I've crafted my way to nearly crushing my mouse as final combine after final combine suddenly dropped from potential pristine to crafted quality, no hope of getting that durability back, despite excellent use of the buffs, counters, drinks, etc. I can literally count on one hand the number of zones I can get steady progress in at will. Quests? I'm at 330+ and counting. I'd be happy to find any more worth doing at this point.

All my friends have made their way to a sizeable level spread, so grouping's not so much an option with them unless we all start new characters. Oh, wait, we've already done that three times...guess that dream's over. The perfect world vision of all classes being created equally has turned out like communism: great theory; doesn't work in the real world. You can say "all fighters can tank and all mages can nuke" until you're blue in the face, but groups still want 1 guardian, 1 templar/defiler, 1 wizard, 1 swashbuckler/brigand, and two other whatever (18 choices for two slots; hope you're feeling lucky) just to fill in.

Maybe they did just add a ton of solo quests. I've lost the will to revisit all the places I've already been to in order to find them. For me, they're a day late and a dollar short. The creature damage rebalance has left me running from 9 out of 10 whites when I try to solo, and feels like a big kick in the pants to anyone that dared try something that didn't fit the grand vision.

I know it's different strokes for different folks, and if EQ is what you want, more power to ya. I've learned that overbalancing is a reality and a hypothetically level playing field just doesn't suit me. Doing the same attack technique over and over really does get boring and repetitive. My longstanding belief that powergamers and casual games can't peacefully co-exist has been strengthened yet again. Forced grouping (to include a ridiculous partiality toward grouping over soloing--the old "you can solo but anyone with a brain would group" clause), though not nearly as Draconian as in FFXI, still sucks on any level.

For me, if WoW can fix these basic issues of FUN, up to level 20 and beyond, they've got my subscription.

I just hope the order I placed on Wednesday got out before they ran out of stock. Every store I visited had piles of copies of EQ2 and a big empty spot on the shelf right next to it where the copies of WoW used to sit. That speaks volumes in itself.

i played eq1 and i liked the freedom and everything and eq2 is so limited

but is wow like eq1? does it beat the grind?

I would say that's a big negative. Likely your serial is going to be taken off the ok to use list.

What you have to do is sell your account with characters and all. Not everyone's favorite thing but in this case your only option.

Edited, Fri Jan 14 09:32:11 2005 by Jute

I wish this was in big letters on the box, so everyone would stop complaining about the lag, lol.

No Pasho, it's not that simple. I never expected this new game to be EQ1. But that doesn't mean I have to accept and tolerate it, whatever it turns out to be - follow me? The designers of this new game, EQ2, made some big and important choices. They decided to heavily direct gameplay, to force us into certain niches. If you solo, you do it this way. If you group, you do it that way. But whatever you do, you will do it OUR way. "YOU ARE IN OUR WORLD NOW". Hasn't that come off to you as... a tad spooky to say the least?

EQ2 becomes necessarily focused on GRINDING. Once you hit lvl 20 the quests seem to thin out and get harder (that or I'm just sick of them and not looking for them any more) ... and you must grind grind grind exp. And there isn't really any variety to how you grind for exp, like there has been in other games (not just eq1 - there are other mmo's that had more variety). And then the frustration factor starts to pile up. No off-line or while-playing player merchanting, so the stuff you wanna buy might be hard to find. And it's a royal pain to sell the stuff you collect or make. And the tradeskill system, which was kinda cook at first - well, for a lot of us it's now just a GRIND too - grind grind grind out crap that you can't sell cuz the player merchant system stinks. Shared debt stinks, esp when a player dies 3 times getting to your grp after a long range invite.

So Pasho, it's not like there is some irrational criteria here - it's not like we're saying EQ1 was good, this is not EQ1, therefore it is bad - we have actual concrete reasons.

Why do I say there is no challenge to soloing? Because 95% of the mobs you find - you either can or can't solo em. There is no "challenge zone" where ... hm, maybe I could kill that, but I gotta think how, hmm... Well see, when I think, all I end up thinking is that I have no variey of spells - I have no real tactical choice. For my Fury, here is my big tactic finesse option: nuke it down or damage-shield and regro self and grind it down. That's it. Big whoop. So, grinding for exp, whether grouped or solo, gets monotonous - boring , zzzzzzz

Very much not good.

These are choices the EQ2 design team made - to make all classes "equal" - it is no longer Everquest, it's Equalquest - and ... the price for so much sameness is ... well, you know what it is.

I'm really depressed that the game doesn't engage me. WoW... still can't find it for sale... and I don't know if I will like it. It's like EQ2 has more the world I wanna be in and better players - and WoW has more life and innovation in it's combat system - but not nec. the world I wanna be in. Sigh.

But here's something really important, and I don't say it enough. A lot of people really like EQ2 and don't have the problems that I have. FF players find EQ2 a godsend. You're seeing some players change and turn against EQ2, however, from a few weeks ago - and it's just as I predicted - the first few weeks of EQ2 I said basically once the novelty of the game wears off, once the limited and one-dimensional and non-innovative combat system sinks in on you ... you will see what I'm saying. And I'm literally seeing more and more posters say this same basic thing, that at first the game (eq2) was great for them... and then the grind set in... the novelty was gone... and they saw how droll and boring adventuring was (in an adventuring game, mind you) - and now they are looking to WoW. But again, there are *reasons* this is happening. It's not arbitrary. SoE's decision to put out a gimped game may have been arbitrary - but our reasons for wishing they would fix this game are not. Thx much, GL.